北京时间2001年12月15日（星期六）上午10:00-12:00。
嘉宾：Alan Cooper，软件交互设计的先知和传播者，客户咨询公司Cooper
Interaction Design的创始人和总裁。成就：
*第一个可视化开发工具Visual Basic的发明者
*经典著作：
The inmates are running the asylum（中文书名：《软件创新之路--冲破高技术营造的牢笼》，翻译:
刘瑞挺 刘强 程岩，电子工业出版社，2001。）；About Face: The
Essentials of User Interface Design
*他的公司帮助IBM、3M、Ericsson、Sun、Visa...等客户开发了许多具有市场竞争力的产品。
....
交流重点：软件可用性，交互设计，其它...
主持人：flycat
要更多了解Alan Cooper的思想，请看以下资料：（1）《非程序员》第七期的第一篇文章“交互设计之父Alan
Cooper访谈”；（2）去书店买他的著作：《软件创新之路--冲破高技术营造的牢笼》
网址：焦点网UMLChina小组聊天室（必须登录焦点网方可进入）
umlchina对大家说: Alan cooper的专家交流10：00开始(2001/12/15 08:36)
fly cat对大家说: the network speed is very slow here ,maybe
the server of smiling has some problem(2001/12/15 09:24)
fly cat对大家说: anyone know anything about alan cooper?(2001/12/15
09:28)
fly cat快要哭地对大家说: nobody ?(2001/12/15 09:28)
fly cat对eagre33说: good morning(2001/12/15 09:31)
umlchina对大家说: 你好，今天周末，谢谢捧场，主持人fly cat(2001/12/15 09:31)
fly cat对大家说: 大家好，谢谢大家来捧场，大家都准备问题了吗？(2001/12/15 09:32)
fly cat对大家说: alan强调交互设计，将设计分为编码设计和交互设计两部分，强调程序是为用户设计，而不是为程序员设计的。(2001/12/15
09:34)
alanhyxf进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:34)
alanhyxf离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:35)
fly cat微笑着对大家说: 大家如果有什么问题，请尽量用英语来提问，如果觉得拿不准，用中文也可以，我可以当翻译(2001/12/15
09:35)
yanst进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:36)
fly cat对umlchina说: alanhyxf是alan cooper吗(2001/12/15 09:36)
umlchina对大家说: alancooper的用户名就是alancooper，他的助手也会在场(2001/12/15 09:38)
umlchina对大家说: 10点钟准时出现(2001/12/15 09:38)
bowdom进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:39)
bowdom对大家说: //eye(2001/12/15 09:40)
bowdom对大家说: 隐退一会！(2001/12/15 09:41)
guodd进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:45)
loveuml进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:48)
yukinglie进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:48)
grasp进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:49)
loveuml哈!哈!哈!大笑三声，对大家说: unlchinaGG好(2001/12/15 09:49)
yukinglie对大家说: 哈！哈！哈。各路英雄都到已经齐了，再下来晚了！(2001/12/15 09:50)
grasp对大家说: hello,everyone(2001/12/15 09:50)
dboy.huang进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:50)
jones_bian进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:50)
loveuml对yukinglie说: 没关系还不晚(2001/12/15 09:52)
yukinglie对dboy.huang说: 欢迎！(2001/12/15 09:52)
wrymy对大家说: //stretch(2001/12/15 09:52)
boss_ch进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:53)
dboy.huang对yukinglie说: 你来多久了(2001/12/15 09:53)
boss_ch对大家说: 报到，报到。。 来得早不如来得巧(2001/12/15 09:53)
yukinglie对大家说: 不需要布置一下会场吗？(2001/12/15 09:54)
fly cat对yukinglie说: 怎么布置(2001/12/15 09:54)
yukinglie对fly cat说: 再给大家利用这个时间介绍一下主要内容啊什么的。有些人刚来！(2001/12/15 09:55)
fly cat对大家说: alan(2001/12/15 09:55)
yuminghui进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:56)
yuminghui对大家说: good morning(2001/12/15 09:56)
dlwind进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:56)
yanst对fly cat说: 用中文可以吗？(2001/12/15 09:56)
boss_ch对大家说: 先准备几个主题吧，按顺序来讨论，不要东一下，西一下的。(2001/12/15 09:57)
bowdom对大家说: 你所说的话，将会成为呈堂证供。小心啦！(2001/12/15 09:57)
fly cat对大家说: 可以，没问题，大家尽量用英文，中文我会帮大家翻译的，但我打字速度不太快(2001/12/15 09:58)
dlwind离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 09:58)
shenqw进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:00)
founder_chen进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:00)
wrymy对大家说: 我还在加班呢，只好看大家讨论了。(2001/12/15 10:00)
yuminghui对大家说: ? 现在去哪里拉呀？(2001/12/15 10:00)
dboy.huang对yukinglie说: 我想时间还没有到吧(2001/12/15 10:01)
wrymy对大家说: 开始了吗？(2001/12/15 10:01)
wrymy对大家说: had alan come?(2001/12/15 10:01)
founder_chen对大家说: hello,(2001/12/15 10:01)
founder_chen对大家说: it's begining(2001/12/15 10:02)
vivisu进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:02)
yukinglie对大家说: 大家稍安勿燥，会议一会儿就开始！(2001/12/15 10:02)
wrymy对大家说: where is alan?(2001/12/15 10:03)
jones_bian进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:03)
lixinqian进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:03)
bungee_jumping进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:03)
vivisu进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:04)
umlchina对大家说: 嘉宾马上就到(2001/12/15 10:04)
umlchina对大家说: 大家少等(2001/12/15 10:04)
yukinglie很高兴地对大家说: 欢迎！(2001/12/15 10:04)
fly cat对大家说: Alan cooper will come soon, please be prepared(2001/12/15
10:04)
fly cat对大家说: if possible, shall we start to chat in english(2001/12/15
10:05)
extreme进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:06)
vivisu对大家说: :)(2001/12/15 10:06)
fly cat对yukinglie说: it seemed you have called in a lot of
people, thanks(2001/12/15 10:06)
extreme对大家说: Hi, guys! I'm here.(2001/12/15 10:07)
fly cat对yukinglie说: anyone have any questions?(2001/12/15
10:07)
alancooper进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:07)
fly cat对大家说: welcome,Mr Alan, thanks you for your time and attention,(2001/12/15
10:08)
extreme对大家说: Hi, fly cat, This is the first time for me
to take part in such a discussion. I like your name. he he...(2001/12/15 10:08)
umlchina对大家说: welcome(2001/12/15 10:08)
alancooper对大家说: Hello, this is Alan Cooper.(2001/12/15 10:08)
umlchina对大家说: welcome mr. cooper(2001/12/15 10:08)
alancooper对大家说: Thank you. I'm very glad to be here(2001/12/15
10:08)
extreme对大家说: Hi,Alan, I am extreme.(2001/12/15 10:08)
virtinoo进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:08)
umlchina对大家说: 提问及参与讨论：草原之蓝,嘉宾回答和主持人发言：正宗喜红,互相说话：绝对黑色(2001/12/15
10:09)
fly cat对大家说: Mr.alan,most of us were impressed by yourbook
<The Inmates are running the asylum>, what's your opion of the book?(2001/12/15
10:09)
extreme对大家说: I bought the Chinese version of your book <
The inmates are running the asylum >. It is obviously a great book, but I
dislike the translation. I don’t think I can buy the(2001/12/15 10:09)
virtinoo对大家说: hello everybody.(2001/12/15 10:09)
alancooper对大家说: I tried to show another way of thinking
about how software should be designed and developed(2001/12/15 10:09)
extreme对大家说: English version here in China, so, could you
please tell me where I can download the English version ? Thanks.(2001/12/15
10:10)
founder_chen对大家说: Mr.alan ,how to design web-based management tool(2001/12/15
10:10)
alancooper对大家说: I don't think there is any way to download
the whole book, yet(2001/12/15 10:10)
alancooper对大家说: "web-based management tool"...to manage
what?(2001/12/15 10:11)
extreme对大家说: Sorry, I just want to find a way to see the english
version.(2001/12/15 10:11)
umlchina对大家说: extreme, buy one book from store(2001/12/15
10:11)
alancooper对大家说: Can you purchase books from Amazon.com?(2001/12/15
10:12)
founder_chen对大家说: such as tmn, service provisioning platform(2001/12/15
10:12)
wrymy对alancooper说: maybe to manage a enterprise,like erp,finance
or crm(2001/12/15 10:12)
yuminghui对alancooper说: Hi, nice to meet you here(2001/12/15
10:12)
boss_ch对alancooper说: Mr Alan ,could you please change your color
to RED?(2001/12/15 10:12)
umlchina对大家说: Mr. cooper, How do you think about the UI
of Windows? and compare it with Mac? for the view of interaction design(2001/12/15
10:12)
extreme对大家说: I don't think it's easy for me Cause I don't have a
American credit card(2001/12/15 10:13)
alancooper对大家说: I think that the UI of Windows and the UI of the
Mac are identical(2001/12/15 10:13)
sdr进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:14)
umlchina对alancooper说: identical-->Good or bad?(2001/12/15 10:14)
yuminghui对alancooper说: Lots of college studetns in China
just know simple appliations of VB and they think they are top programmer. :((2001/12/15
10:14)
alancooper对大家说: Identical good for 1984, old and gray and bald for
2001(2001/12/15 10:14)
boss_ch对alancooper说: How do you feel about the UI of Windows
XP?(2001/12/15 10:15)
alancooper对大家说: "...think they are top programmer..." Same thing
in USA(2001/12/15 10:15)
wrymy对alancooper说: i dont like ui style of windows xp(2001/12/15
10:15)
alancooper对大家说: I think the UI of Windows XP is identical to other
Windows and Mac(2001/12/15 10:16)
yuminghui对alancooper说: ^_^(2001/12/15 10:16)
extreme对大家说: It is said C# might replace Visual Basic soon. What
do you think about it, Mr. Cooper ?(2001/12/15 10:16)
tipsyy进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:16)
umlchina对alancooper说: if windows were designed by you, you will....?(2001/12/15
10:16)
guodd对大家说: top programmer but not artist?(2001/12/15 10:16)
alancooper对大家说: C# looks like a very good language(2001/12/15 10:17)
yuminghui对alancooper说: I think C# has too many features
like Java, just like another version of Java.(2001/12/15 10:17)
fly cat对大家说: you emphasize the important of interaction
design,in my opion, it is very useful when the programme need a lot of user-machine
interaction, but for the programmes(2001/12/15 10:17)
alancooper对大家说: I don't think that programming is an art.
I think it is a craft, like pottery making or glass blowing.(2001/12/15 10:17)
fly cat对大家说: such as embedded systems used for real-time
monitor and control, do you think it's(2001/12/15 10:17)
fly cat对大家说: still applicable?(2001/12/15 10:18)
yuminghui对alancooper说: it is said that young guys, esp those
who just begin to program(2001/12/15 10:18)
alancooper对大家说: I don't think that interaction design is
applicable for programmers regardless of what they are writing. Interaction
design is for interaction designers.(2001/12/15 10:18)
fly cat对大家说: programming is a craft, design is art?(2001/12/15
10:19)
alancooper对大家说: design is a craft, too.(2001/12/15 10:19)
yuminghui对alancooper说: they should not use language like VB or tools
like some UML tools at first(2001/12/15 10:19)
extreme对大家说: What kind of background or knowledge base do you think
is needed for a good interaction designer , Mr. Cooper ?(2001/12/15 10:19)
alancooper对大家说: Good programmers can program independent
of ANY language(2001/12/15 10:20)
yuminghui对alancooper说: they should be nailed to use C/C++. may i
have your opinions?(2001/12/15 10:20)
fl_xyg进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:20)
dboy.huang对alancooper说: What do you think about Java EJB?(2001/12/15
10:20)
alancooper对大家说: Good interaction designers need to be trained
in interaction design methods(2001/12/15 10:20)
extreme对大家说: Say, paiting or art ?(2001/12/15 10:21)
tipsyy对alancooper说: please, how do you think the framework of .net
and the internet OS(2001/12/15 10:21)
alancooper对大家说: Art plays almost no role in any aspect of software
design or development(2001/12/15 10:21)
sdr对alancooper说: which tools do you choose between Rational suite
and Ms visio(2001/12/15 10:21)
shenqw对大家说: interaction designers needs knowing programming?(2001/12/15
10:21)
greatfox进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:21)
fly cat对大家说: which background is most important for interantion
designer? technical or marketing?(2001/12/15 10:22)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction designers need to know what
is IMPORTANT to programmers, but they don't need to know how to program.(2001/12/15
10:22)
alancooper对大家说: "technical or marketing": Neither. Interaction
design is a profession of its own.(2001/12/15 10:22)
hdw1978进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:22)
wrymy对alancooper说: now fashion to devlope on web,eg. normal
html,xml,etc.. but we offten found that to design a friedly ui is so hard on
web,specially when u design a enterprise system(2001/12/15 10:23)
wrymy对alancooper说: the control on the web is so hard(2001/12/15
10:23)
wrymy对alancooper说: to immplement when the control is very
complex(2001/12/15 10:23)
extreme对大家说: I guess, he might need to know something about the
psychology , right ?(2001/12/15 10:23)
alancooper对大家说: "control on the web is so hard" : that is SO TRUE!!(2001/12/15
10:23)
yuminghui对alancooper说: In my opinion, I think it is sense
of marketing and operation skills of marketing that decide the percepective
of some software because I am major in marketing ＾＿＾(2001/12/15 10:23)
umlchina对大家说: Mr. cooper, Can you introduce some good tools
on Interaction Design?(2001/12/15 10:23)
shenqw对大家说: but the interaction designers how to know that
they should put what on the screen?(2001/12/15 10:24)
guodd对大家说: How to become a designer from a programmer? Which
kind of books may help?(2001/12/15 10:24)
alancooper对大家说: "psychology": Interaction designers must know what
is IMPORTANT to psychologists.(2001/12/15 10:24)
penghongjie进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:24)
hdj0569进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:24)
yuminghui对alancooper说: so the boss needs to hire psychology major
in the team?(2001/12/15 10:25)
alancooper对大家说: "...put what on the screen?" the same way
that programmers know what code to put in the editor.(2001/12/15 10:25)
xmlone进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:25)
wrymy对alancooper说: so if u have some suggest on the design of web(2001/12/15
10:25)
alancooper对大家说: "...hire psychology...": No, just the opposite.
Hire interaction designer so they don't have to hire psychology majors.(2001/12/15
10:25)
alancooper对大家说: Psychology majors CAN'T DESIGN interaction(2001/12/15
10:26)
alancooper对大家说: "suggest...design of web": Yes, put all
interaction on one page.(2001/12/15 10:26)
extreme对大家说: So, what should he do if one guy want to become
a interaction designer ?(2001/12/15 10:26)
yuminghui对alancooper说: oho ic ic thanks. but I had thought psychology
major and read the slight difference among people and so the interface or help
system is much more user-friendly(2001/12/15 10:27)
alancooper对大家说: "...to become interaction designer?": stop
programming.(2001/12/15 10:27)
fly cat对大家说: it seemed i that i have read your book ,but haven't
grasp the soul(2001/12/15 10:27)
yuminghui对alancooper说: "psychology major and read " should be "can
read"(2001/12/15 10:27)
extreme对大家说: Why to stop programming ?(2001/12/15 10:28)
alancooper对大家说: "...interface...user friendly": interaction
design is not the same thing as interface design.(2001/12/15 10:28)
alancooper对大家说: "Why stop programming?": Because the goals of programmers
and designers are in conflict. You can't do both at the same time.(2001/12/15
10:28)
extreme对大家说: So, I have no chance to become a interaction
desinger, cause I like programmign so much.(2001/12/15 10:29)
fly cat对大家说: Mr.cooper, can you briefly express the soul
of interaction design?(2001/12/15 10:29)
alancooper对大家说: If you like programming so much, why would
you WANT to be an interaction designer?(2001/12/15 10:29)
umlchina对alancooper说: "programmers and designers are in
conflict", but they are all in a team?(2001/12/15 10:29)
developerly进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:30)
hdj0569对alancooper说: hi,I encounter this problem: I want
to send the video on the monitor of one computer (computer A) to another one
(computer B),(2001/12/15 10:30)
alancooper对大家说: "...soul of interaction design?": Making the technology
serve the users, instead of making the users serve technology.(2001/12/15 10:30)
hdj0569对alancooper说: making the two videos of A and B are
exactly the same. The video signal will be transferred in the real time.(2001/12/15
10:30)
yuminghui对alancooper说: i cannot agree with you more(2001/12/15 10:30)
extreme对大家说: Yes, as umlchina mentioned, designer and programmer
are in one team, that is why have some interst in it.(2001/12/15 10:30)
alancooper对大家说: "programmers and designers in conflict":
No. The **GOALS** of programmers and desginers are in conflict.(2001/12/15 10:31)
loveuml进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:31)
extreme对大家说: So, what do you think I should know about interaction
design, as a programmer or project manager ?(2001/12/15 10:32)
yuminghui对alancooper说: May I ask you how about the placement of
VB programmer (intermidiate level) in the US? how abouthte average yearly income?(2001/12/15
10:33)
lj25进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:33)
umlchina对alancooper说: does a good interaction Designer use
any tools? can you introduce one?(2001/12/15 10:33)
alancooper对大家说: "...think I should know...": that good interaction
designers will be able to convince you why you should follow their design.(2001/12/15
10:33)
fly cat对大家说: In your opion, what't the most valuable character
of an interaction designer?(2001/12/15 10:34)
bungee_jumping对alancooper说: you use UML to do the interaction design?
if you do, how to do it?(2001/12/15 10:34)
guodd对大家说: Do you means good interaction designers need more communication
skill instead of solid design?(2001/12/15 10:34)
alancooper对大家说: "...tools": We use qualitative field research techniques,
user modelling methods, design principles, design patterns, and lots of paper
and whiteboards.(2001/12/15 10:34)
extreme对大家说: But as a project manager without any knowledge, how
can i know this guy would lead us to success ?(2001/12/15 10:35)
umlchina对alancooper说: so, Any good books in how to make interaction
design step by step?(2001/12/15 10:35)
boss_ch进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:35)
boss_ch对alancooper说: Could you give some suggest to web base application
interaction designer?(2001/12/15 10:35)
alancooper对大家说: "..how can I know...": Yes, how can you know? Can
programming knowledge help you? I don't think so.(2001/12/15 10:35)
hdj0569对大家说: why?(2001/12/15 10:36)
extreme对大家说: So, what can help me ?(2001/12/15 10:36)
awcpowerise进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:36)
alancooper对大家说: "...what can help me?": An interaction designer.(2001/12/15
10:36)
fly cat对大家说: then you are an interaction designer, can you
give us some directions now?(2001/12/15 10:38)
shenqw对大家说: What kind of people can be an interaction designer?
what skill should They have?(2001/12/15 10:38)
extreme对大家说: But I don't think it's easy to find a good
interaction desinger here in China.(2001/12/15 10:38)
wrymy对alancooper说: i think extreme means how he could know
the interaction designer make a good design?i want know about it too.(2001/12/15
10:39)
alancooper对大家说: It is just as hard to find a good interaction
designer as it is to find a good programmer. Anywhere.(2001/12/15 10:39)
umler进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:39)
extreme对大家说: So, as fly cat mentioned, could you give us any directions
?(2001/12/15 10:40)
alancooper对大家说: "...how he could know...": Why should the
programmer sit in judgment over the interaction designer?(2001/12/15 10:40)
hdw1978对alancooper说: INSPIRATION, in most cases, where do you get
the inspiration?(2001/12/15 10:40)
alancooper对大家说: "INSPIRATION": Where do programmers get
inspiration?(2001/12/15 10:40)
wrymy对alancooper说: but if i'm a project manager,i must know...(2001/12/15
10:40)
alancooper对大家说: Yes, as a project manager, you must know.(2001/12/15
10:41)
wrymy对alancooper说: i think extreme want to be a project
manager.:)(2001/12/15 10:41)
extreme对大家说: Yes, I gotta know if I were a PROJECT MANAGER.(2001/12/15
10:41)
extreme对大家说: Yes, some time in the future.(2001/12/15 10:41)
umlchina对alancooper说: Have any good books which can tell us how
to make interaction design step by step?(2001/12/15 10:42)
fly cat对大家说: i have a feeling, Mr.cooper are stimulate us to found
the solution, instead of told us directly(2001/12/15 10:42)
alancooper对大家说: "...step by step": not yet, but we are working on
one.(2001/12/15 10:42)
alancooper对大家说: "...told us directly": Interaction design
is NOT an engineering discipline.(2001/12/15 10:42)
umlchina对alancooper说: Yes! have you any plan to write a
new book?(2001/12/15 10:43)
extreme对大家说: So, I suggest Mr. cooper to set up a educaiotn program
here in China to give us some training .(2001/12/15 10:43)
alancooper对大家说: "...new book?": Two senior designers at
Cooper are working on textbook.(2001/12/15 10:43)
alancooper对大家说: "...education program in China": That's a good idea.(2001/12/15
10:44)
shenqw对大家说: What kind of people can be an interaction designer?
what skill should they have?(2001/12/15 10:44)
alancooper对大家说: "what skill should they have?": Interaction
designers need to be able to visualize complex behavior without actually seeing
it.(2001/12/15 10:45)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction design must take place before any code
is written.(2001/12/15 10:45)
fly cat对大家说: But i think it's difficult for the interaction
designers to set up their authority if they haven't some successful experience(2001/12/15
10:45)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction designers must be able to IMAGINE what
the code will do before it is written.(2001/12/15 10:45)
extreme对大家说: Can this sort of skill ' to visualize complex behaviouis
without actually seeing it" be trained ?(2001/12/15 10:46)
alancooper对大家说: "...difficult...to set up authority": That
is very true.(2001/12/15 10:46)
alancooper对大家说: "...be trained?": Only if you are born with the
talent, first.(2001/12/15 10:46)
alancooper对大家说: Just like programming can be trained, but
only if you are born with the natural talent to program, first.(2001/12/15 10:47)
fly cat对大家说: i'm confused(2001/12/15 10:47)
greatfox对alancooper说: why?(2001/12/15 10:47)
alancooper对大家说: "I'm confused": That is a very good start!(2001/12/15
10:47)
extreme对大家说: Yes, so am I. Sort of psychology issue.(2001/12/15
10:47)
umlchina对alancooper说: We have read the Chinese version of your "The
inmates..." , but another one "about face" is published earlier. Do you think
if it should be translated into Chinese now or(2001/12/15 10:47)
fly cat对大家说: and then?(2001/12/15 10:48)
umlchina对alancooper说: we should wait for the second edition
of "About face"?(2001/12/15 10:48)
extreme对大家说: sorry, philosophy , rather than psychology .(2001/12/15
10:48)
alancooper对大家说: "and then?": Then you are ready to learn
another very difficult, but very different, skill.(2001/12/15 10:49)
fly cat对大家说: but how to?(2001/12/15 10:49)
alancooper对大家说: I do not understand why an engineer would
want to be an interaction designer.(2001/12/15 10:49)
alancooper对大家说: Engineers HATE to do the things that interaction
designers do.(2001/12/15 10:50)
jazy进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:50)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction designers deal with humans. Not CPUs
and programming languages and operating systems.(2001/12/15 10:50)
extreme对大家说: We just want to communicate better with an
interaction designer.(2001/12/15 10:50)
alancooper对大家说: "...want to communicate...": That's WONDERFUL!!(2001/12/15
10:51)
hdw1978离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:51)
greatfox对alancooper说: yes,but how can we assort with the programmer&
interaction designer.as a project manager?(2001/12/15 10:51)
extreme对大家说: So, we gotta know something about it.(2001/12/15
10:51)
品雪进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:51)
alancooper对大家说: "but how to?": Stop programming. Imagine
a user. Design something for him or her.(2001/12/15 10:52)
shenqw对大家说: "IMAGINE what the code will do before it is
written"? --> What code? Program source code? In your option, the Interaction
designer must have some programming experience?(2001/12/15 10:52)
umlchina对alancooper说: Where the web should go? HTML is not
suitable for Interaction design?(2001/12/15 10:52)
hzmajw进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:53)
alancooper对大家说: "...must have some programming experience?":
Why do you think that is true?(2001/12/15 10:53)
fl_xyg进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:54)
fl_xyg对alancooper说: Sequence Diagram of use case is Design
of soft(2001/12/15 10:54)
fly cat对大家说: for if he doesn't have some programming experience?
it's hard for him to let the engineers listen to him(2001/12/15 10:54)
adamwu进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:55)
alancooper对大家说: "...hard for him to let the engineers listen...":
You mean that the engineers won't listen to an interaction designer? Why not?(2001/12/15
10:55)
fl_xyg对alancooper说: Sequence Diagram of use case is Design
of soft?(2001/12/15 10:55)
alancooper对大家说: "Sequence Diagram": I think this is a tool
for programmers.(2001/12/15 10:56)
hzmajw对大家说: can artist act as interaction designer(2001/12/15 10:56)
agan01进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:56)
hzmajw对大家说: or can office assistant artist act as interaction
designer(2001/12/15 10:56)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction design is not art.(2001/12/15 10:57)
hzmajw对大家说: why(2001/12/15 10:57)
alancooper对大家说: Can office assistant write code?(2001/12/15
10:57)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction design is just as complex, sophisticated,
and difficult as writing code is.(2001/12/15 10:57)
fly cat对大家说: Before the interaction designer set up his
authority, it's really very hard. being a good programmer first is one way to
set up his authority, also self confidence(2001/12/15 10:57)
jazy对大家说: because here's a lot of engineers care about coding
more than customer's need(2001/12/15 10:58)
hzmajw对大家说: i always think that it's too bad programmer
to act as interaction designer(2001/12/15 10:58)
alancooper对大家说: "...being a good programmer first...": Why should
the interaction designer have to prove himself to the programmer? Why doesn't
the programmer have to(2001/12/15 10:58)
alancooper对大家说: prove himself to the interaction designer?(2001/12/15
10:58)
kenxia进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:58)
bobar进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 10:59)
hzmajw对大家说: programmer is just to implement the function or procedure,just
code deigner,not interaction designer(2001/12/15 10:59)
shenqw对大家说: OK, The interaction does't need some programming
experience, But how the Interaction designer can IMAGINE what the code will
do before it is written?(2001/12/15 10:59)
extreme进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:00)
stevenend进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:00)
jazy对hzmajw说: it's besed on ur aim:coding for urself or other people?(2001/12/15
11:00)
hzmajw对大家说: system designer ,interaction designer,code desinger
must be three actors(2001/12/15 11:00)
fly cat对大家说: but in reality world, this just exists(2001/12/15
11:00)
alancooper对大家说: "...how...IMAGINE?": That's what interaction
designers DO. If **YOU** can't do it, then you are not an interaction designer.(2001/12/15
11:00)
siyul进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:00)
alancooper对大家说: "..this just exists.": And it is my job to change
reality.(2001/12/15 11:01)
fly cat对大家说: but how to(2001/12/15 11:01)
developerly对大家说: Before you became a designer, were you
ever doing some coding work?(2001/12/15 11:01)
alancooper对大家说: "were you ever doing some coding work?":
Only for about 15 years.(2001/12/15 11:01)
extreme对大家说: Whao! Only 15 year !(2001/12/15 11:02)
fly cat对大家说: in my opion, you also need to set up your authority
by being the father of VB(2001/12/15 11:02)
alancooper对大家说: I coded the visual part of visual basic.(2001/12/15
11:02)
umlchina对developerly说: Mr. Cooper designed the VB(2001/12/15 11:02)
extreme对大家说: and VB is so well-known and popular.(2001/12/15
11:03)
developerly对大家说: So, do you think your experiences of coding
ever help you with the designing later?(2001/12/15 11:03)
hzmajw对大家说: so the client programn(2001/12/15 11:03)
alancooper对大家说: At my company, we have forty interaction
designers. None of them writes code. All of them visualize what the behavior
of code will be.(2001/12/15 11:03)
umlchina对大家说: VB is a revolution(2001/12/15 11:03)
extreme对大家说: so, how can you let us believe a good desinger
need to know nothign about programming .(2001/12/15 11:03)
kenxia对大家说: But I think VB is not suitable for designing
large projet.(2001/12/15 11:04)
alancooper对大家说: Many of Cooper's designers have never written a
single line of code.(2001/12/15 11:04)
alancooper对大家说: VB is not a design tool.(2001/12/15 11:04)
hzmajw对大家说: so the client program is just face, hart is
over there,the server compenent(2001/12/15 11:04)
alancooper对大家说: "...client program is just face...": That is rarely
true.(2001/12/15 11:05)
umlchina对alancooper说: Have any tool ONLY for interaction design?(2001/12/15
11:05)
alancooper对大家说: "...tool...for interaction design?": Yes,
but not one made out of software.(2001/12/15 11:05)
hzmajw对大家说: so client program is just loooking art(2001/12/15
11:06)
extreme对大家说: I get confused.(2001/12/15 11:06)
greatfox对alancooper说: me too(2001/12/15 11:06)
umlchina对alancooper说: 'not one made out of software"?(2001/12/15
11:06)
extreme对大家说: no software tools for design ?(2001/12/15 11:06)
powertoy进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:06)
fly cat对大家说: it seems a good programmer could hardly be
a good interaction designer.(2001/12/15 11:06)
alancooper对大家说: ***The questions you are asking me sound just like
the questions programmers in California asked me about 6 years ago.(2001/12/15
11:07)
alancooper对大家说: "...good programmer...good interaction designer":
Why would he want to be?(2001/12/15 11:07)
umlchina对alancooper说: ??(2001/12/15 11:07)
extreme对大家说: That's why we come here to listen to some ideas(2001/12/15
11:08)
alancooper对大家说: "...why we come here...": I really appreciate your
participation and the quality of your interest.(2001/12/15 11:08)
umlchina对alancooper说: Neither artist, nor programmer, To
develop a new position is so hard(2001/12/15 11:09)
alancooper对大家说: "...new position is so hard.": Yes, that
is true. We have already done it.(2001/12/15 11:09)
umlchina对alancooper说: We need more book(2001/12/15 11:09)
fly cat对大家说: In china, the idea path for a programmer is
coding->designing->leading(2001/12/15 11:09)
umlchina对alancooper说: step by step, tobe educated(2001/12/15
11:10)
developerly进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:10)
developerly对大家说: why a programmer want to be a good interaction
designer,the reason I think is because they want to try more or they can program
a software with good face :p(2001/12/15 11:10)
alancooper对大家说: "coding-->designing-->leading": I think this
is not correct.(2001/12/15 11:10)
umlchina对alancooper说: More and more people know interaction design(2001/12/15
11:10)
extreme对大家说: So, is your idea about the path ?(2001/12/15
11:10)
developerly对大家说: so what you think is correct?(2001/12/15 11:10)
alancooper对大家说: It should be junior coder-->coder-->senior
coder(2001/12/15 11:10)
alancooper对大家说: junior designer-->designer-->senior designer(2001/12/15
11:10)
alancooper对大家说: junior leader-->leader-->senior leader(2001/12/15
11:11)
alancooper对大家说: Programmers generally make low quality designers
and low quality leaders.(2001/12/15 11:11)
extreme对大家说: You mean a project manager can know nothing abuot the
programming ?(2001/12/15 11:11)
hzmajw对大家说: yes,(2001/12/15 11:11)
umlchina对alancooper说: but no junior architect?(2001/12/15
11:11)
developerly对大家说: if a coder want to be a leader,how can he do?(2001/12/15
11:11)
alancooper对大家说: All job titles are confused and confusing.(2001/12/15
11:12)
jazy对大家说: i think u mean that interaction designers charge of expressing,and
programmers charge of logical,nothing will be well done whithout either part(2001/12/15
11:12)
alancooper对大家说: "i think u mean...expressing...logical...":
I think that is correct.(2001/12/15 11:12)
alancooper对大家说: "nothing will be well done without either
part": YES, YES, YES!!!!!(2001/12/15 11:12)
hzmajw对大家说: everybody should think which actor he would be ,just
as he(2001/12/15 11:13)
hzmajw对大家说: like(2001/12/15 11:13)
developerly对大家说: I've catch your mean(2001/12/15 11:13)
hzmajw对大家说: when he have the aim,he will be good at his
job(2001/12/15 11:14)
fly cat对大家说: so most of us have to follow the path junior coder-->coder-->senior
coder(2001/12/15 11:14)
extreme对大家说: but some time the boss need you to become a project
manager, what should you do ?(2001/12/15 11:15)
alancooper对大家说: People who really LOVE to code, are really GOOD
at coding, and they should continue to code. It would be a waste to do otherwise.(2001/12/15
11:15)
hzmajw对大家说: if u want to be coder,then step and step, deep
into the code world(2001/12/15 11:15)
kenxia对大家说: How to become a good designer.(2001/12/15 11:15)
alancooper对大家说: "but some time boss need you...": Boss should
go back to coding.(2001/12/15 11:15)
developerly对大家说: heheh(2001/12/15 11:15)
alancooper对大家说: heheh!(2001/12/15 11:16)
umlchina对alancooper说: Which mobile phone are better from
you interaction design view? Motolora, Nokia, Ericsson?(2001/12/15 11:16)
extreme对大家说: But you become one famous interaction designer
now, Does it mean you don't like programing any more ?(2001/12/15 11:16)
virtinoo进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:16)
alancooper对大家说: "which mobile phone?": I think they all suck.(2001/12/15
11:16)
hzmajw离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:17)
alancooper对大家说: "...don't like programming any more?": I
like it, but I'm not good enough at it anymore.(2001/12/15 11:17)
umlchina对alancooper说: BUT....They are all fool?(2001/12/15
11:17)
umlchina对alancooper说: And microsoft,IBM?(2001/12/15 11:18)
extreme对大家说: That's sort of pity for the programmer community.(2001/12/15
11:18)
sdr离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:18)
fly cat对大家说: but in my opion, when we are young, we like
to do something as coding, to realize something, then we have more experience,
it's naturally for us want to do some design(2001/12/15 11:18)
umlchina对alancooper说: the same as?(2001/12/15 11:18)
wh7577进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:19)
alancooper对大家说: "young...coding...more experience...design":
This is only true for some people.(2001/12/15 11:19)
alancooper对大家说: mobile phones should not be a lump.(2001/12/15
11:19)
colinluo进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:20)
extreme对大家说: I think you are right.(2001/12/15 11:20)
alancooper对大家说: Why should I hold a keyboard up to my ear?(2001/12/15
11:20)
品雪进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:20)
extreme对大家说: So, what do you a mobile phone should look like ?(2001/12/15
11:20)
alancooper对大家说: Why are there numbers on a tool for communicating
with people?(2001/12/15 11:20)
alancooper对大家说: I think a mobile phone should be invisible.(2001/12/15
11:21)
alancooper对大家说: An earpiece on a headband with a small microphone...(2001/12/15
11:21)
extreme对大家说: What do you mean by Invisible ? hidden in the
clothes ?(2001/12/15 11:21)
fly cat对大家说: bluetooth?!(2001/12/15 11:21)
alancooper对大家说: "hidden in the clothes?": that's a good
start.(2001/12/15 11:21)
kenxia对大家说: I t's great idea(2001/12/15 11:21)
umlchina对alancooper说: but it is smaller and smaller now and can
be put in anywhere(2001/12/15 11:22)
alancooper对大家说: bluetooth is a good IDEA. It's not a very
good protocol.(2001/12/15 11:22)
kenxia微笑着对大家说: yes(2001/12/15 11:22)
alancooper对大家说: The important part of phone is controlling
it, not talking into it.(2001/12/15 11:22)
fly cat对大家说: i think a baby should be a good intersction designer,
he has the most wild imagination(2001/12/15 11:22)
alancooper对大家说: why do mobile phones take two hands, both eyes,
one ear, and all of my attention?(2001/12/15 11:23)
fly cat对大家说: we are so trapped in books, softwares and protocols(2001/12/15
11:24)
alancooper对大家说: "...trapped...": Programmers and project
managers are. Interaction designers are not.(2001/12/15 11:24)
品雪对alancooper说: there are lots of case looks like: user
ask you submit project in a very limmitted period, and then submit a lot a chang
requirement to you,(2001/12/15 11:24)
品雪对alancooper说: is there still some kind of interactive
design?(2001/12/15 11:24)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction designers can lead us out of the trap.(2001/12/15
11:24)
extreme对大家说: So, where and how can we find such a designer
here in China ?(2001/12/15 11:25)
alancooper对大家说: "...lots of case looks like...": Yes, there
is a LOT of bad management out there.(2001/12/15 11:25)
kenxia微笑着对大家说: What's the relation with the interaction
des and UML.(2001/12/15 11:25)
umlchina对品雪说: I think Interaction design is for Product,not project(2001/12/15
11:25)
alancooper对大家说: "where and how...find...": They are there.
Probably not programming. Maybe in tech support, testing, documentation...(2001/12/15
11:26)
品雪对umlchina说: hehe, maybe(2001/12/15 11:26)
alancooper对大家说: "Product, not project": This distinction is not
universal.(2001/12/15 11:26)
extreme对大家说: but I think it's a big difference.(2001/12/15
11:27)
alancooper对大家说: "...maybe...": It is difficult to find interaction
designers when they have been repressed for so long.(2001/12/15 11:27)
fly cat对大家说: Is interaction design popular in USA now(2001/12/15
11:28)
extreme对大家说: the same question ?(2001/12/15 11:28)
alancooper对大家说: "...popular in USA...": It is growing.(2001/12/15
11:28)
umlchina对品雪说: The Road of Chinese software is PRODUCT, not PROJECT
as India, I think(2001/12/15 11:28)
tobytan进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:28)
品雪对umlchina说: yeah, I thinks so, too. but let's face the fact and
get a better solution(2001/12/15 11:29)
alancooper对大家说: "product v project": Neither is as important as
design for the user.(2001/12/15 11:29)
umlchina对alancooper说: Where the web should go? HTML is not suitable
for Interaction design?(2001/12/15 11:29)
extreme对大家说: I guess we can do both PRODUCT and PROJECT if needed.(2001/12/15
11:29)
alancooper对大家说: HTML sucks.(2001/12/15 11:29)
fly cat对大家说: what is the most difficult part in promoting
interaction design in USA(2001/12/15 11:29)
umlchina对alancooper说: But it is simple(2001/12/15 11:30)
extreme对大家说: and alos popular.(2001/12/15 11:30)
extreme对大家说: sort of de-factor(2001/12/15 11:30)
alancooper对大家说: "promoting interaction design": convincing
senior executives that the behavior of their software has a strong influence
over the money they make and spend.(2001/12/15 11:30)
bungee_jumping进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:31)
bungee_jumping对alancooper说: can UML be applied to interaction design?how
to do it?(2001/12/15 11:31)
alancooper对大家说: "and also popular": So is crime.(2001/12/15 11:31)
extreme对大家说: but is works very well for representing informaiton
on the internet.(2001/12/15 11:32)
areca_chen进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:32)
品雪对alancooper说: have you any advise to this bad situation(...lots
of case looks like),when we cannot avoid it, which point to start to interaction
design more than programmer's experienc(2001/12/15 11:32)
linkspeed进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:32)
alancooper对大家说: "...works very well...": NO IT DOES NOT!!!!(2001/12/15
11:32)
umlchina对alancooper说: popular<-->crime?(2001/12/15
11:32)
fly cat对大家说: because we have no other choice(2001/12/15
11:33)
guodd进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:33)
extreme对大家说: I mean at the moment, before new technology come into
the market.(2001/12/15 11:33)
alancooper对大家说: HTML<--->CRIME(2001/12/15 11:33)
alancooper对大家说: Many of the limitations of HTML can be overcome
with good interaction design. Few programmers care to follow interaction designers.(2001/12/15
11:34)
chenzhaohuiemail进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:34)
alancooper对大家说: Overcoming limitations of HTML takes lots of difficult
coding, too.(2001/12/15 11:35)
linkspeed对大家说: in my understanding, the main drawback of HTML is
to the system,(2001/12/15 11:35)
extreme对大家说: but we got now interaction designer here in
China to tell us(2001/12/15 11:35)
fly cat对大家说: have you ever condidered to promote your ideas
in china? books not enough(2001/12/15 11:35)
alancooper对大家说: I am promoting them right now.(2001/12/15 11:36)
alancooper对大家说: Tell your boss!(2001/12/15 11:36)
extreme对大家说: I hope I can by the engilsh version of yuor
book in China, VERY MUCH.(2001/12/15 11:36)
extreme对大家说: sorry, buy(2001/12/15 11:36)
alancooper对大家说: I would like to see my book sold in China, too.(2001/12/15
11:36)
areca_chen离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:37)
kenxia微笑着对大家说: How much, I hope it's not too expensive(2001/12/15
11:37)
alancooper对大家说: I don't have any control over the book.
It's up to the publisher.(2001/12/15 11:37)
umlchina对大家说: You can go to book store to buy one(2001/12/15 11:37)
extreme对大家说: you mean english version, umlchina ?(2001/12/15
11:38)
品雪对alancooper说: have you any advise to the bad situation(...lots
of case looks like),when we cannot avoid it, which point to start to interaction
design more than programmer's experience(2001/12/15 11:38)
umlchina对extreme说: No, chinese version(2001/12/15 11:38)
extreme对大家说: I already got one, umlchina.(2001/12/15 11:39)
alancooper对大家说: "...advice...": Don't let managers make you start
coding until there is some written description of the program's BEHAVIOR.(2001/12/15
11:39)
alancooper对大家说: Functions and behavior are not the same
thing.(2001/12/15 11:39)
extreme对大家说: How do you think we can DOCUMENT this BEHAVIOUR ? UML
?(2001/12/15 11:39)
alancooper对大家说: Features and behavior are not the same thing.(2001/12/15
11:39)
alancooper对大家说: Draw pictures.(2001/12/15 11:40)
extreme对大家说: in what kind of tool ? photoshop ?(2001/12/15 11:40)
alancooper对大家说: Use a pencil.(2001/12/15 11:40)
alancooper对大家说: We use whiteboards a lot.(2001/12/15 11:40)
alancooper对大家说: PowerPoint is also good.(2001/12/15 11:40)
品雪对alancooper说: do you mean ui designing issue?(2001/12/15
11:41)
developerly进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:41)
developerly对大家说: So I think the Use Case Diagram is good to use(2001/12/15
11:41)
xiaomch进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:41)
alancooper对大家说: "...advice...": You must know who your user
is. You cannot think of your user as "the user".(2001/12/15 11:42)
alancooper对大家说: Choose one person to be your user. Imagine
this person.(2001/12/15 11:42)
umlchina对alancooper说: Larry Constantine use Essential Use Case for
UI design(2001/12/15 11:42)
fly cat对大家说: can your list some great interaction designers
outside your own company, maybe they are doing the samething but don't call
it interaction design.(2001/12/15 11:42)
alancooper对大家说: Give this person a name.(2001/12/15 11:43)
alancooper对大家说: "...great interaction designers...": Rob
Haitani designed the Palm Pilot.(2001/12/15 11:43)
kenxia微笑着对大家说: How do you think c++?(2001/12/15 11:44)
alancooper对大家说: Ben Schneiderman designed SmartMoney.com
marketmap.(2001/12/15 11:45)
alancooper对大家说: Learning C++ is as easy as learning to play
the piano.(2001/12/15 11:45)
fly cat对大家说: the personas(2001/12/15 11:45)
extreme对大家说: I take it as " Learning C++ is as DIFFICULT as learning
to play the piano."(2001/12/15 11:45)
soonon进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:45)
alancooper对大家说: Yes, we call them personas.(2001/12/15 11:46)
alancooper对大家说: "DIFFICULT": YES!!(2001/12/15 11:46)
umlchina对alancooper说: Where the web should go? Since HTML
Suck.(2001/12/15 11:46)
joy_wind进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:46)
alancooper对大家说: "Where the web should go?": Smarter browser.(2001/12/15
11:47)
joy_wind对大家说: Hello Cooper!(2001/12/15 11:47)
alancooper对大家说: Hello!(2001/12/15 11:47)
joy_wind对大家说: what is smarter browser(2001/12/15 11:47)
smilemac进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:47)
alancooper对大家说: "...smarter browser": It would be able to remember
things, write things to disk, communicate with servers interactively....(2001/12/15
11:48)
kenxia微笑着对大家说: You mean the SMART AGENT(2001/12/15 11:49)
alancooper对大家说: It would have better interaction idioms, like drag
and drop, scrolling, refreshing.(2001/12/15 11:49)
extreme对大家说: "write thing to disk' security ?(2001/12/15 11:49)
joy_wind对alancooper说: What kind technic will it introduce?(2001/12/15
11:49)
litter_ok进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:49)
umlchina对alancooper说: Smarter browser remember things: conflict
with privacy?(2001/12/15 11:49)
alancooper对大家说: "...security": Yes, that is a problem to
solve. But it isn't very hard.(2001/12/15 11:49)
fly cat对大家说: what if the interaction designers made some
mistakes? they were so important in the whole project it is easy for them to
ruin all things.(2001/12/15 11:49)
alancooper对大家说: What if the programmers made some mistakes?(2001/12/15
11:50)
extreme对大家说: fire him!(2001/12/15 11:50)
extreme对大家说: just kidding.(2001/12/15 11:50)
hard64进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 11:50)
alancooper对大家说: "fire him!": Yes, a professional cannot
afford mistakes.(2001/12/15 11:51)
smilemac对大家说: Hi Alan, how do you think the confict between timing
limitation and a good design for interaction in a project?(2001/12/15 11:51)
joy_wind对alancooper说: good question(2001/12/15 11:51)
fly cat对大家说: but mistakes is unavoidable(2001/12/15 11:51)
alancooper对大家说: "timing limitation...": Why is there a time limit?
Who made it too short? Why did he make it too short?(2001/12/15 11:52)
alancooper对大家说: What does he hope to gain by making time
limit too short?(2001/12/15 11:52)
joy_wind对alancooper说: time is money(2001/12/15 11:52)
品雪对alancooper说: I take it(the advise), thank you.(2001/12/15
11:52)
alancooper对大家说: "time is money": Wasted time is money.(2001/12/15
11:52)
joy_wind对alancooper说: The boss care about his money we care about
the project(2001/12/15 11:53)
alancooper对大家说: The reason why managers give short time
limits is because they don't know what programmers are doing.(2001/12/15 11:53)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction designers can tell managers what programmers
are doing.(2001/12/15 11:54)
alancooper对大家说: Interaction designers can get programmers more time
to work.(2001/12/15 11:54)
joy_wind对alancooper说: I cant agree u more!(2001/12/15 11:54)
kenxia微笑着对大家说: YOU ARE RIGHT(2001/12/15 11:54)
extreme对大家说: just as you mention in the book, the manager
gotta deploy somethig.(2001/12/15 11:54)
smilemac对alancooper说: Such as market press, budget, management level
and so on. all these thing will cause the time limitation to a project. Many
product are just the results of trade-off.(2001/12/15 11:55)
extreme对大家说: and interaction turn into sort of project manager,(2001/12/15
11:55)
alancooper对大家说: "...gotta deploy something": Only because he doesn't
know what the program will look like until it is done.(2001/12/15 11:55)
fly cat对大家说: I think interaction design more focus on user
requirement than design(2001/12/15 11:55)
alancooper对大家说: "...market press, budget...": all are excuses to
hide that manager doesn't know what program will do or look like or how it will
behave.(2001/12/15 11:56)
alancooper对大家说: "...focus more on user requirement...":
YES!!!(2001/12/15 11:56)
soonon对大家说: agree(2001/12/15 11:56)
alancooper对大家说: as I said before, interaction design is not the
same thing as user interface design.(2001/12/15 11:56)
extreme对大家说: so, who is gonna be responsible for what the software
should do ?(2001/12/15 11:57)
extreme对大家说: interaction designer ?(2001/12/15 11:57)
alancooper对大家说: "who...responsible...": The interaction designer
is the person with the best skills for answering this question so that EVERYBODY
wins.(2001/12/15 11:57)
extreme对大家说: who control the proces ? interaction designer
?(2001/12/15 11:57)
alancooper对大家说: The process should be controlled by a manager.(2001/12/15
11:57)
joy_wind对alancooper说: what is concret works of the interaction
designer?(2001/12/15 11:58)
alancooper对大家说: The form and behavior of the program should
be controlled by the interaction designer.(2001/12/15 11:58)
extreme对大家说: so, the interaction designer looks like a analyst(2001/12/15
11:58)
alancooper对大家说: The technology and the code should be controlled
by the programmer.(2001/12/15 11:58)
alancooper对大家说: "...analyst": One of the jobs of the interaction
designer is analysis.(2001/12/15 11:58)
smilemac对alancooper说: But how to judge how much value one interaction
design means to user.(2001/12/15 11:58)
kenxia微笑着对大家说: Control? By right or By Skill(2001/12/15 11:58)
alancooper对大家说: But "Analysts" don't design.(2001/12/15
11:58)
tipsyy对umlchina说: what things a interaction designer should
to do in a project?(2001/12/15 11:59)
joy_wind对alancooper说: is a interaction designer more like
an architecturer?(2001/12/15 11:59)
alancooper对大家说: "By right or by skill": What do programmers control
by today? They don't seem to have the necessary skill to design.(2001/12/15
11:59)
extreme对大家说: but how can a guy turn into sort of analyst
without the knowledge of programming ?(2001/12/15 11:59)
alancooper对大家说: "...interaction designer...like architect":
YES, YES, YES!!!!(2001/12/15 11:59)
alancooper对大家说: "how can a guy...without...programming?":
How can a programmer decide what users want?(2001/12/15 12:00)
joy_wind对alancooper说: right!(2001/12/15 12:00)
extreme对大家说: I don't mean the programmer should know the
requirements, I just want to say(2001/12/15 12:01)
extreme对大家说: a interaction designer should know something about
programming in order to do some analysis work.(2001/12/15 12:02)
alancooper对大家说: why?(2001/12/15 12:02)
alancooper对大家说: I think what you really mean is that you
are worried that an interaction designer will ask you to do something that is
stupid.(2001/12/15 12:03)
extreme对大家说: cause, I don't think a person without any knowledge
of programming can be a good analyst.(2001/12/15 12:03)
alancooper对大家说: But a good, professional interaction designer would
not design something that cannot be coded or would be slow to run.(2001/12/15
12:04)
slo进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 12:04)
joy_wind对alancooper说: interaction designer is not an analyst，
right?(2001/12/15 12:04)
品雪对alancooper说: you mean analysis is more like in uerser knowladge
domain?(2001/12/15 12:04)
tipsyy对alancooper说: then please tell me, what should be
done by a interaction designer in a project and what kind of responsibility
of he or she to this project?(2001/12/15 12:04)
smilemac对alancooper说: So he must know some thing about programing
technologies(2001/12/15 12:04)
alancooper对大家说: "...in user's...domain": YES(2001/12/15 12:05)
alancooper对大家说: "know...technologies": Of course.(2001/12/15
12:05)
extreme对大家说: I don't think a user domain expert is a perfect
analyst(2001/12/15 12:05)
developerly离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 12:05)
bungee_jumping进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 12:05)
bungee_jumping对大家说: i think the two are Practically the
same.(2001/12/15 12:05)
alancooper对大家说: "...what kind of responsibility?": The interaction
designer should be responsible for what the program does and how it behaves.(2001/12/15
12:05)
joy_wind对extreme说: Yes he could be!(2001/12/15 12:06)
fcx123进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 12:06)
alancooper对大家说: The first part of all of our design projects is
a detailed research project into the problem domain.(2001/12/15 12:06)
smilemac对alancooper说: Could the interaction designer and
project manager is a same man?(2001/12/15 12:07)
extreme对大家说: Yes,(2001/12/15 12:07)
extreme对大家说: but then, ,(2001/12/15 12:07)
alancooper对大家说: "...the same man?": Why?(2001/12/15 12:07)
fly cat对大家说: Time is over, do you think it's better for
me to finish this chatting?(2001/12/15 12:07)
alancooper对大家说: Why ask an expert in one field to work in another
field?(2001/12/15 12:07)
extreme对大家说: I don't think so for a large proejct.(2001/12/15
12:07)
alancooper对大家说: Yes, I must go.(2001/12/15 12:07)
alancooper对大家说: I have enjoyed talking with you all.(2001/12/15
12:08)
alancooper对大家说: thank you very much!!!!!!(2001/12/15 12:08)
smilemac对alancooper说: Sometimes, no more people.(2001/12/15
12:08)
fly cat对大家说: Mr cooper(2001/12/15 12:08)
extreme对大家说: bye, bye, Mr. Cooper, glad to meet you.(2001/12/15
12:08)
fuzhong进入聊天室.(2001/12/15 12:08)
alancooper对大家说: Goodbye(2001/12/15 12:08)
fly cat对大家说: thank you very much(2001/12/15 12:08)
joy_wind对alancooper说: Thank you，Cooper!(2001/12/15 12:08)
品雪对alancooper说: good by, Mr cooper(2001/12/15 12:08)
bungee_jumping对大家说: thanks,cooper(2001/12/15 12:08)
smilemac对alancooper说: thank u(2001/12/15 12:08)
品雪对alancooper说: glad to meet you(2001/12/15 12:08)
soonon对大家说: bye, mr cooper(2001/12/15 12:08)
umlchina对alancooper说: good night(2001/12/15 12:08)
smilemac对alancooper说: bye, alan(2001/12/15 12:08)
umlchina对alancooper说: and the exit button is at right -bottom(2001/12/15
12:09)
joy_wind对alancooper说: Thank you,umlchian!(2001/12/15 12:09)
extreme对大家说: bye, every one.(2001/12/15 12:09)
yuminghui离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 12:09)
fly cat对大家说: so glad(2001/12/15 12:09)
alancooper离开了聊天室.(2001/12/15 12:09)
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