嘉宾:James J. Odell

James J. Odell是面向对象技术的一代宗师,agent-based systems、业务重组、complex adaptive systems方面的专家。他是对象管理组织(OMG)的面向对象分析设计专责小组的主席,负责UML2.0标准的开发。他也是FIPA组织的成员以及OMG Agent特别兴趣小组的主席,参与开发agent技术的标准。

交流重点:UML, OMG, agent...


jamesodell进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:22)
superlong进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:22)
xiaofei96进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:22)
umlchina对大家说: welcome(2002/04/26 09:22)
umlchina对jamesodell说: welcome professor odell(2002/04/26 09:22)
freehorses对大家说: I haven't come here for a long time.(2002/04/26 09:22)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi Jiayu. I will return in a few minutes(2002/04/26 09:23)
Charity_Zhou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:23)
Charity_Zhou对大家说: It's time now?(2002/04/26 09:23)
freehorses对jamesodell说: Hi,It's very nice to see you!(2002/04/26 09:23)
francsisco进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:23)
umlchina对jamesodell说: professor,please set your color as red(2002/04/26 09:23)
yhufo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:23)
umlchina对jamesodell说: 对象管理组织(OMG)的面向对象分析设计专责小组(的主席(2002/04/26 09:24)
mycode进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:24)
umlchina对大家说: 负责UML2.0标准的开发(2002/04/26 09:24)
nftx进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:24)
yhufo对大家说: welcome(2002/04/26 09:24)
jamesodell对大家说: My color should now be set to red. (My color is red, too :-)(2002/04/26 09:24)
eye-eye对jamesodell说: welcome(2002/04/26 09:25)
qfkfw对jamesodell说: professor,It's nice to see you !(2002/04/26 09:25)
yhufo对jamesodell说: what is the primary different and improvement between UML 2.0 and othere versions.(2002/04/26 09:25)
hibye进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:25)
umlchina对jamesodell说: yes, it is OK(2002/04/26 09:25)
freehorses对jamesodell说: How about the UML2.0?(2002/04/26 09:25)
lakedai进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:25)
flstone进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:25)
mycode对大家说: who are the leading actor?(2002/04/26 09:25)
francsisco对大家说: Good morming,professor(2002/04/26 09:25)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi Freehorses, UML 2.0 is in progress right now.(2002/04/26 09:26)
yhufo对jamesodell说: what is the primary different and improvement between UML 2.0 and othere versions.(2002/04/26 09:26)
freehorses对jamesodell说: When we can see the doc of UML2.0?(2002/04/26 09:26)
eulerchen进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:26)
jamesodell对大家说: As chair, I am trying get them to produce one standard, instead of 5.(2002/04/26 09:26)
荷南对大家说: Good morming,jamesodell(2002/04/26 09:27)
wg88888进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:27)
jamesodell对大家说: Before I go on, I wish everyone a good morning.(2002/04/26 09:27)
荷南对jamesodell说: Good morming!(2002/04/26 09:27)
荷南对jamesodell说: thx(2002/04/26 09:28)
yhufo对jamesodell说: thanks(2002/04/26 09:28)
francsisco对大家说: thanks(2002/04/26 09:28)
freehorses对jamesodell说: thanks,professor.(2002/04/26 09:28)
cxf1976对jamesodell说: Do you have a job in rational company?what do you think Rose?(2002/04/26 09:28)
freehorses对jamesodell说: Good morning,sir.(2002/04/26 09:28)
yoyo55进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:28)
yoyo55对大家说: thanks(2002/04/26 09:28)
jamesodell对大家说: Do, back to Freehorse's question about "when UML 2. Because UML is so large, it was divided into 3 pieces: infrastructure, superstructure, and OCL.(2002/04/26 09:29)
荷南对jamesodell说: OK, may we ask question now ? jamesodell(2002/04/26 09:29)
cxf1976对jamesodell说: oh(2002/04/26 09:29)
yhufo对jamesodell说: what is the primary different and improvement between UML 2.0 and othere versions.(2002/04/26 09:29)
jamesodell对大家说: The final submission for the UML superstructure is due Jun3 3, 2002. (see 09:30)
qingcai进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:30)
sunrise518进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:30)
francsisco对jamesodell说: I have just learned something about UML recently.I feel deeply absorbed into it.However I have not converted my tranditioned thought well enough to understand it.(2002/04/26 09:31)
jamesodell对大家说: Superstructure is due October 22, 2002--but I think it may be extended to December 2002. (see 09:31)
francsisco对jamesodell说: So what should I do?(2002/04/26 09:31)
freehorses对jamesodell说: What's the differenes between 'business use case' and 'use case'?(2002/04/26 09:31)
dongyeye进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:32)
higoals进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:32)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi Yhufo, the big difference with 2.0 is that we have now tried 1.0 and learned about our mistakes--both in notation and metamodel.(2002/04/26 09:32)
javabeaner进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:32)
jamesodell对大家说: For example, Activity Diagrams are no longer tied to state machines becasue state machines resticted the feeling of workflow.(2002/04/26 09:33)
jx_wq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:33)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi Francisco, can you get a book called "UML Distilled" by Martin Fowler. It is an easy way to quickly learn the notation.(2002/04/26 09:34)
flybur进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:34)
vivisu进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:34)
yhufo对jamesodell说: why uml so success,as your view what is the main reason of successful(2002/04/26 09:34)
m53469进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:34)
jamesodell对大家说: It is important because 90% of the OO tool vendors that use diagrams use UML.(2002/04/26 09:34)
javabeaner对大家说: night, sir(2002/04/26 09:35)
redempire进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:35)
freehorses对jamesodell说: Which tool support UML well?(2002/04/26 09:35)
cxf1976对jamesodell说: do you like rose?(2002/04/26 09:36)
javabeaner对大家说: Which tool,you think the best one for UML?(2002/04/26 09:36)
jamesodell对大家说: Yhufo, UML is successful for several reasons. First, before UML, there was 29 different notations for OO. Now, we can speak the same graphical language. It also makes(2002/04/26 09:36)
raintung进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:37)
raintung对大家说: ok(2002/04/26 09:37)
jamesodell对大家说: it easier for tool vendors.(2002/04/26 09:37)
amoy_weng进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:37)
m53469对大家说: what is framework(2002/04/26 09:37)
redempire进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:37)
jamesodell对大家说: Now, the newest important thing is Model-Driven Architecture (MDA).(2002/04/26 09:38)
Charity_Zhou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:39)
Charity_Zhou对大家说: I have noticed that UML is becoming more and more complex, and can not show some ideas from Jacobson,such as variants and variaty point(2002/04/26 09:39)
jamesodell对大家说: MDA means that we can generate code/XML/etc from the pictures. There are now several vendors that support this now.(2002/04/26 09:39)
qingcai对大家说: where i can get somedocument about mda?(2002/04/26 09:39)
cxf1976对jamesodell说: what does ocl mean?(2002/04/26 09:39)
jamesodell对大家说: For example Kabira generates 100% of its transaction processor code from UML diagrams.(2002/04/26 09:39)
yinhj进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:40)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi Charity_Zhou, yes--unfortunately--UML is also getting more complex.(2002/04/26 09:40)
zhlei163进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:40)
ja_wei进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:40)
yhufo对jamesodell说: "Model-Driven Architecture" , "Use Case Driven",what is the different(2002/04/26 09:41)
jamesodell对大家说: We are all working to minimize this problem. Yet, we all want to have many new features. So, it is a constant debate.(2002/04/26 09:41)
sozgy进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:41)
jx_wq对jamesodell说: It seems that there are no OO tools that support full UML features, even some important ones. What can we do to face this situations. Shall we draw UML notations by hand?(2002/04/26 09:41)
flybur离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:41)
qfkfw进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:41)
zhlei163离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:41)
jamesodell对大家说: Philosophically, we have decided that the core UML will not support all (i.e. the union) of everybody's needs.(2002/04/26 09:42)
hard64进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:42)
jamesodell对大家说: Instead, we aproviding a fundamental core that people can extend using "profiles".(2002/04/26 09:42)
xing_xsz进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:42)
javabeaner对大家说: which tools you used for UML?(2002/04/26 09:42)
xing_xsz进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:43)
zenglingyou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:43)
m53469对jamesodell说: rose(2002/04/26 09:43)
jamesodell对大家说: In this way, you can add your own favorite approach based on UML and have it standardized without making everthing complex.(2002/04/26 09:43)
xing_xsz离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:44)
jamesodell对大家说: For example, we are think of producing an Agent profile. Not everyone wants agets (yet), but those that do can use this extension to a basic UML..(2002/04/26 09:44)
tjlhx进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:44)
xEye进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:44)
小包车离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:45)
freehorses对jamesodell说: Does UML needed in small project?(2002/04/26 09:45)
jamesodell对大家说: hi jx_wq; there are several tools that support vitually all of UML 1.0 (such as Visio and Rose). However, 2.0 is so large that this may no longer be possible.(2002/04/26 09:46)
m53469对jamesodell说: what is framework?(2002/04/26 09:46)
rs37进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:46)
yhufo对jamesodell说: As I comprehend the uml beacome more and more abstract!Is this Right?(2002/04/26 09:47)
Charity_Zhou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:47)
Charity_Zhou对jamesodell说: It's said that 2.0 will be small than 1.x. Why now become large?(2002/04/26 09:47)
newhumanegg进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:47)
jamesodell对大家说: thai is the bad news. The good news is that perhaps vendors will spend more time improving *subsets* of UML.(2002/04/26 09:48)
francsisco对jamesodell说: UML is so complex that whether I need to build a system Using it without little requirement documents or just with some related articles?(2002/04/26 09:48)
jamesodell对大家说: And since UML tools must be interoperable, the models can be moved from one tool to another. this is a requirement of UML(2002/04/26 09:48)
shenqw进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:48)
parfum进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:48)
freehorses对jamesodell说: Oh, It's really a good idea.(2002/04/26 09:48)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi Freehorses, I use UML on small, medium, and large projects.(2002/04/26 09:49)
qfkfw进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:49)
banq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:49)
tjlhx对crystal_y说: i am studying agent,please give a some suggestion about agent book(2002/04/26 09:49)
Charity_Zhou对jamesodell说: I feel UML is used best for comminucation between programers(2002/04/26 09:49)
jamesodell对大家说: The minumum is the class diagram, because it *literally* defines the concepts of a project.(2002/04/26 09:49)
jamesodell对大家说: And this is where most project--even small ones--go bad.(2002/04/26 09:50)
swingghost进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:50)
gigix进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:50)
Charity_Zhou对jamesodell说: it's not a good idea for comminucation between IT people with the domain people/experters(2002/04/26 09:50)
Charity_Zhou对jamesodell说: using UML(2002/04/26 09:50)
jamesodell对大家说: I have spent sometimes days getting companies to understand what they mean by "customer" and "product". this may seem trivial, but in complex compaies, it is not.(2002/04/26 09:50)
redempire对jamesodell说: Professor,there are new support to XMI in UML2.0?(2002/04/26 09:51)
阿楼进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:51)
fish123进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:51)
jamesodell对大家说: Charity_Zhou, I use UML for *both* IT and domain people to communicate.(2002/04/26 09:52)
yhufo对jamesodell说: If the sub-set of the UML 2.0 Support non-IT domain(2002/04/26 09:52)
tjlhx对jamesodell说: i am studying agent,please give a some suggestion about agent book(2002/04/26 09:52)
banq对jamesodell说: why UML case tools are so big?(2002/04/26 09:52)
eye-eye对jamesodell说: sir,do you think all the programer should know the UML well?(2002/04/26 09:52)
newhumanegg对大家说: what about Rose?(2002/04/26 09:52)
tjlhx对jamesodell说: i am studying agent,please give a some suggestion about agent book(2002/04/26 09:52)
m53469离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:52)
tosh进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:52)
jamesodell对大家说: IMO, this is *vital* because if the domain person can not express directly to the IT person--and vice-versa--there are big problems.(2002/04/26 09:52)
Charity_Zhou对jamesodell说: any trainning to the domain people?(2002/04/26 09:52)
freehorses对jamesodell说: How to use UML in a project which has more than one part?(2002/04/26 09:53)
tjlhx对jamesodell说: who is studying agent ,please call me(2002/04/26 09:54)
jamesodell对大家说: I don't mean that domain people and IT people should talk about technical matters to each other.(2002/04/26 09:54)
jamesodell对大家说: But, class diagrams and activity diagrams (for example) are great ways to communicate. I've been doing this for 25 years--and find it works.(2002/04/26 09:54)
tjlhx对jamesodell说: i am studying agent,please give a some suggestion about agent book(2002/04/26 09:54)
jamesodell对大家说: Next week i am teaching a class of 20 people; 10 are IT and 10 are domain. I do this all this time.(2002/04/26 09:55)
jx_wq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:55)
jx_wq对jamesodell说: As I know, drawing an interface on a package is not allowed in rose. But the UML standard has this situation. I was often puzzled by this.(2002/04/26 09:55)
liujianping进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:55)
freehorses对jamesodell说: I think the domain people is mean the person who do not know programming.(2002/04/26 09:56)
liujianping进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:56)
jamesodell对大家说: yhufo, I use UML to support non-IT domains. In other words, I use it for *business modelling*.(2002/04/26 09:56)
parfum对jamesodell说: Mr.Hans-Erik Eriksson and Mr.Magnus Penker had writen a book named "business modeling with UML",is it a good way to teach domain people to use UML?(2002/04/26 09:57)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi eye-eye, everyone should know UML, IMO. However, not everyone needs to know everything in UML. Domain experts do not need to read component models, for example. doe(2002/04/26 09:57)
banq对jamesodell说: we can not teach domain people, we service for them(2002/04/26 09:57)
freehorses对jamesodell说: I only use use case diagram to communicate with business man.(2002/04/26 09:57)
freehorses对jamesodell说: Am i right?(2002/04/26 09:58)
banq对freehorses说: it is impossible(2002/04/26 09:58)
jamesodell对大家说: tjlh, was that a question for me about agents? If so, go to 09:59)
yhufo对jamesodell说: in my project we have a lot of UI content,how to use UML to modeling the UI program.(2002/04/26 09:59)
jx_wq对jamesodell说: to lcc0385, notation, 符号的意思,你可以装个金山词霸嘛!(2002/04/26 09:59)
mosf进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 09:59)
freehorses对banq说: Hi,where are you come from?(2002/04/26 10:00)
jamesodell对大家说: jx_wq; yes, Rose does not do *everything*--infortunately. That's why I use Visio many times. This is a problem, I agree.(2002/04/26 10:00)
banq对freehorses说: I am from .u are welcome(2002/04/26 10:00)
javaw进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:00)
parfum对jamesodell说: Mr.Hans-Erik Eriksson and Mr.Magnus Penker had writen a book named "business modeling with UML",is it a good way to teach domain people to use UML?(2002/04/26 10:00)
yuxuguang进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:01)
banq对freehorses说: if domain people can express their think in UML, they become SA(2002/04/26 10:01)
freehorses对umlchina说: I see, thanks.(2002/04/26 10:01)
jamesodell对大家说: Banq, I do not typically give domain people a formal class. When we start modelling, they learn as we go. Again--for me--it is vital that domain experts participate.(2002/04/26 10:02)
banq对jamesodell说: if domain people can express their think in UML, they become SA, do u agree?(2002/04/26 10:02)
mosf对jamesodell说: morning!i want to know how to use the uml in the practical modeling work.(2002/04/26 10:02)
jamesodell对大家说: Not everyone agrees with me. (But, they are wrong ;-)(2002/04/26 10:02)
mosf对jamesodell说: the uml seems a little complex with some termologies.(2002/04/26 10:03)
maximus.kun进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:03)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi freehorses, I am originally from San Francisco. Now I live in Ann Arbor: a small university town in Michigan (University of Michigan).(2002/04/26 10:03)
zenglingyou对jamesodell说: can use rose and visio at one time?(2002/04/26 10:03)
lakedai离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:04)
javabeaner离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:04)
banq对jamesodell说: We can communicate with each other in Java's interface, It is easy with UML. How to think?(2002/04/26 10:04)
freehorses对jamesodell说: As you know, the traning of UML is poor for domainn experts.(2002/04/26 10:04)
banq对jamesodell说: We can communicate with each other in Java's interface, It is easy other than with UML. How to think?((2002/04/26 10:04)
freehorses对jamesodell说: In China.(2002/04/26 10:04)
jamesodell对大家说: Banq, if domain people learn to express in UML, they might become a systems analyst. However, not every domain expert will become an SA.(2002/04/26 10:05)
cclx进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:05)
yinhj离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:05)
umlchina对jamesodell说: you have a article "Six Different Kinds of Composition", But the "Composition" in UML is different from yours?(2002/04/26 10:05)
jamesodell对大家说: I say this because learning to analyze a system and getting people to express they requirements is a profession.(2002/04/26 10:06)
mosf对jamesodell说: I am new in the uml,can you give me some suggestions to study it?(2002/04/26 10:06)
umlchina对jamesodell说: "A slice of bread is a portion of a loaf of bread."(2002/04/26 10:07)
freehorses对jamesodell说: Sometimes, I write a document which include simple use case diagram for domain experts.(2002/04/26 10:07)
banq对jamesodell说: yes, I agree, this profession is only fit for SA(2002/04/26 10:07)
jamesodell对大家说: So, because you are an expert in electrical distribution systems (for example) does not automatically qualify you as an analyst that can get(2002/04/26 10:07)
jamesodell对大家说: other to communicat their requirements. does that make sense?(2002/04/26 10:07)
jamesodell对大家说: UMLChina, yes the six kinds of composition that I write about are not fully contained in UML.(2002/04/26 10:08)
jamesodell对大家说: That chapter was written more to help people conceptualize what compostion/aggregation meant.(2002/04/26 10:09)
yhufo对jamesodell说: the same question that I ask Kent Back in this chat room.what do you think the most important things as a programmer and how to become a good programmer.(2002/04/26 10:09)
zzgod进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:09)
ehuayu进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:09)
jamesodell对大家说: I found that if I required everyone to label their composition with one of these six, it was too much.(2002/04/26 10:10)
sevencolor进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:10)
jamesodell对大家说: Also, for code generation it was not very necessary. So, it was more psychology, rather than formalism.(2002/04/26 10:10)
yxqdotnet进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:11)
jx_wq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:11)
cool_angelly进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:11)
sherrywong进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:11)
banq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:12)
jamesodell对大家说: Zenglingyou, you can write visio and then transfer it to Rose via XMI. However, the *graphics* are not transfered; only the semantics.(2002/04/26 10:12)
jamesodell对大家说: So, we are not trying to fix that as well by defining a graphical transfer standard.(2002/04/26 10:13)
yhufo对jamesodell说: what is your view of XP.(2002/04/26 10:13)
jamesodell对大家说: However, this will not be ready for another year, because it is so difficult.(2002/04/26 10:13)
hayfs进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:13)
xiaohero进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:14)
jamesodell对大家说: ALL: Am soory if I have missed any questions so far. There are so many and I am trying to get them.(2002/04/26 10:14)
xiaohero进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:15)
banq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:15)
arthree_new进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:15)
xiaohero进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:15)
yxqdotnet对大家说: //??(2002/04/26 10:15)
yhufo对jamesodell说: what is your view of XP.(2002/04/26 10:15)
jamesodell对大家说: yhufo: Basically, I was one of the originators of XP. However, IMO, it is now not correctly practiced.(2002/04/26 10:15)
xiaohero进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:16)
hayfs进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:16)
yhufo对jamesodell说: the same question that I ask Kent Back in this chat room.what do you think the most important things as a programmer and how to become a good programmer.(2002/04/26 10:16)
jamesodell对大家说: Most XP people do not perform analysis. IMO, this is *very* bad.(2002/04/26 10:16)
willhunt进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:16)
ebizs进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:16)
banq对jamesodell说: I think if with Java , it is not bad(2002/04/26 10:17)
jamesodell对大家说: Analysis is the process of mapping our perception of the world into some notation. Design is the process of mapping that notation into an implementation.(2002/04/26 10:17)
redempire对jamesodell说: Professor.I want to know some XMI in UML 2.0(2002/04/26 10:17)
banq对jamesodell说: Java is very fit for XP(2002/04/26 10:17)
mosf对jamesodell说: can you recommend a book for uml to study?(2002/04/26 10:17)
banq对jamesodell说: Analysis waste boss's time and money(2002/04/26 10:17)
jamesodell对大家说: If you do not do analysis, you do not have a good mapping from the perceived world.(2002/04/26 10:17)
ytby进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:17)
umlchina对大家说: 各位,提问用草原之蓝(2002/04/26 10:17)
phantombjcn进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:17)
javaw对jamesodell说: Morning james. What is the proper source for deriving clasees for conceptual model, noun phrases from Requirements or use cases?(2002/04/26 10:18)
di_no_saur进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:18)
banq对jamesodell说: only need simple analysis.(2002/04/26 10:18)
jamesodell对大家说: Literally, if you do not accuratley identify and define your concepts, how can you build a system.(2002/04/26 10:18)
jamesodell对大家说: A system without sound concepts has a high probability of not being correct.(2002/04/26 10:19)
banq对jamesodell说: in process, I will find how to build a system(2002/04/26 10:19)
lingi进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:19)
jamesodell对大家说: If you do analysos, though, I think that XP has many helpful techniques.(2002/04/26 10:19)
bobgeng进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:19)
yuxuguang离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:20)
banq对jamesodell说: I think XP is merge analysis in process(2002/04/26 10:20)
zenglingyou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:20)
zenglingyou对jamesodell说: when should use activity diagram or sequence diagram?(2002/04/26 10:20)
lcc0385对大家说: Hello , Mr jamesodell :),I have never use UML ,Now , I am learing UML ,could you give me some suggestion to me ?(2002/04/26 10:21)
jamesodell对大家说: Hi javaw, My approach to initially identifying classes is literally to ask people about the concepts they have. Nouns are certainly a useful way. Nouns with adjectives(2002/04/26 10:21)
jamesodell对大家说: are very important because that's how we get subtypes.(2002/04/26 10:21)
yhufo对jamesodell说: thank you very much about the view of the XP!it is classic(2002/04/26 10:22)
jamesodell对大家说: This technique is now called developing an "ontology."(2002/04/26 10:22)
jamesodell对大家说: Ontology is vital. And now that we have XML, it is even more so.(2002/04/26 10:22)
jamesodell对大家说: An ontology is a set of agreed concepts and their names.(2002/04/26 10:23)
jamesodell对大家说: Concepts, then, in UML terminology are <<types>>(2002/04/26 10:23)
javaw对jamesodell说: Ontology? Could you elaborate on this more?(2002/04/26 10:24)
zzyccc进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:24)
qfkfw对大家说: Ontology?(2002/04/26 10:24)
jamesodell对大家说: During design, these types are translated into implementation classes (which can become Java, Oracle tables, or ..)(2002/04/26 10:24)
di_no_saur进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:25)
szzhou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:26)
fire_snake进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:26)
banq对umlchina说: the room's letter is too small, my eyes become be dead.(2002/04/26 10:26)
jamesodell对大家说: Zenglingyou: the choice of diagrams should be based on how a domain expert or IT person tends to think about a problem.(2002/04/26 10:26)
fantasy_nj进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:26)
alexxie进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:26)
hibye对大家说: Professor,can we use the "ontology" to describe the register and classify of componets(2002/04/26 10:26)
yhufo对jamesodell说: is Ontology means standard notation(2002/04/26 10:26)
jamesodell对大家说: For example, most business people tend to thing about their business in terms of workflow.(2002/04/26 10:26)
phantombjcn对jamesodell说: How do you think about the relation between ER diagram or CRC and UML, Is it true that UML can do all the jobs older tools can do(2002/04/26 10:27)
jamesodell对大家说: In this case, an activity diagram should be used. To use a sequence diagram instead, would cause the person mental difficulties.(2002/04/26 10:27)
javaw对jamesodell说: How does XML fit into Ontology?(2002/04/26 10:27)
snowmanjy进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:27)
hibye对大家说: Professor,can we use the "ontology" to describe the register and classify of componets(2002/04/26 10:28)
jamesodell对大家说: However, a programmer would probably think in terms of a sequence diagram. here, you will need to transform the activity diagram into a sequence diagram.(2002/04/26 10:28)
jamesodell对大家说: This is not difficult. The point is: you open up your toolkit and pick the tool that best represent the situation to the person modelling. Does that make sense?(2002/04/26 10:30)
ebizs离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:30)
phantombjcn离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:30)
albbs进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:30)
freehorses对jamesodell说: ff(2002/04/26 10:31)
jamesodell对大家说: That way, not everyone needs to know every diagram. Engineers might prefer state charts; operations people like the object-flow activity diagram.(2002/04/26 10:31)
michael.fly进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:31)
lcc0385进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:31)
javaw对jamesodell说: What is your view of XPers' *enough* design using UML?(2002/04/26 10:32)
jamesodell对大家说: --->Onltology: is not a notation. It is a set of concepts that have agreed definitions and terms.(2002/04/26 10:32)
albbs离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:32)
vc6vc6vc6进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:33)
jamesodell对大家说: For example, an order processing ontology could consist of concepts for Product, Order, Line Item, and Customer. Furthermore, you can express associations and subtyping.(2002/04/26 10:33)
jx_wq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:33)
hibye对jamesodell说: Professor,can we use the "ontology" to describe the register and classify of componets(2002/04/26 10:33)
jay@对大家说: Dr.J, what's the object of ontology? being? or noumenon? what's the difference? thank you.(2002/04/26 10:34)
jamesodell对大家说: The most common technique for representing an ontology is a class diagram--but not the only one.(2002/04/26 10:34)
lcc0385进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:34)
vagawind进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:35)
jamesodell对大家说: For those with formal training in mathmatics, there are various ways to express this.(2002/04/26 10:35)
yanbinhu进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:35)
mj.cai进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:35)
zenglingyou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:35)
zenglingyou对jamesodell说: But we can use activity diagram when we need realize a particular use case?(2002/04/26 10:35)
liounzhou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:36)
michael.fly对jamesodell说: Is the Rational RequisitePro necessary To make requirements(2002/04/26 10:36)
yrlong进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:36)
jamesodell对大家说: Hibye, For components, you might be able to use an ontology to express the classes that are contained in the component.(2002/04/26 10:36)
jamesodell对大家说: However, the idea of ontology is more for analysis than design.(2002/04/26 10:36)
jamesodell对大家说: Do you see why it is also important for XML?(2002/04/26 10:37)
michael.fly对yrlong说: ye run are you,i am zhouxiaohui.(2002/04/26 10:37)
ghqin进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:38)
javaw对大家说: Ontology, good technique. When we analyse a system, we find one ontology, then a set of concepts are explored. Right?(2002/04/26 10:38)
yrlong对michael.fly说: i am fine(2002/04/26 10:38)
jamesodell对大家说: XML has tags. What word will you use to identify the part that is buying a product: Customer, client, purchaser, ...? An ontology defines these and state the valid name(2002/04/26 10:38)
jay@对jamesodell说: Dr.J, what's the object of ontology? being? or noumenon? what's the difference? thank you.(2002/04/26 10:39)
jamesodell对大家说: for each. Multiple names for each concept is permitted as long as there is no confusion. That way, I can say "hot oil" and you can say "la yu" and we both mean the same(2002/04/26 10:39)
阿楼进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:39)
yhufo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:40)
yhufo对jamesodell说: dose ontology means the business entitys in the system(2002/04/26 10:40)
zhangxianbo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:40)
nftx进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:40)
cclx离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:40)
阿楼进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:41)
xcats进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:41)
zzgod离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:41)
alexxie对大家说: Professor,In a web-based project,we have a lot of Jsp pages,can we model Jsp pages as classes in Class Diagram?(2002/04/26 10:41)
zhangxianbo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:41)
jamesodell对大家说: Zenglingyou, use cases need more than one diagram. For example, you can identify the use cases using a "Use Case" diagram.(2002/04/26 10:42)
javaw对jamesodell说: What is your view of XPers' *enough* design using UML?(2002/04/26 10:42)
xcats进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:42)
jay@对jamesodell说: why not just use 'Entity' instead of 'ontology', the later seems too abstract(2002/04/26 10:42)
jamesodell对大家说: But, how do you express a scenario? You could use words, a sequence diagram, or an activity diagram.(2002/04/26 10:42)
nftx进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:43)
yhufo对jamesodell说: Can you tell me some articles and web site about *ontology*(2002/04/26 10:43)
jamesodell对大家说: Ivar prefers only sequence diagrams; I prefer using either depending on the user.(2002/04/26 10:43)
bulestar进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:44)
hibye对jamesodell说: Professor,can you tell me some difference between the ontology and metamodel,or what are the same(2002/04/26 10:44)
ghqin对大家说: Dr.J,grasshopper support which standard,MASIF or FIFA?thanks(2002/04/26 10:44)
jamesodell对大家说: Javaw: When we analyse a system, we find one ontology, then a set of concepts are explored. Yes.(2002/04/26 10:44)
songzw进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:44)
javaw对jamesodell说: I dont think activity diagram is a proper way to express a scenario. Your thoughts?(2002/04/26 10:45)
jamesodell对大家说: yhufo; yes, ontology means the business entities in the system(2002/04/26 10:46)
dongbo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:46)
alexxie对jamesodell说: Professor,In a web-based project,we have a lot of JSPs,can we model JSPs as classes in Class Diagram?(2002/04/26 10:46)
llp_2002进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:46)
jamesodell对大家说: Alexxie; IMO, you can model JSP pages as classes in Class Diagram. However, do not forget to also model the concepts that are contained on the pages.(2002/04/26 10:47)
hibye对jamesodell说: Professor,can you tell me some difference between the ontology and metamodel,or what are the same(2002/04/26 10:47)
qfkfw对jamesodell说: The web of don't let me in(2002/04/26 10:47)
jamesodell对大家说: Therefore, if you have an Order page, you should also have identifed classes for customer, order, and part--for the domain level of an n-tiered architecture.(2002/04/26 10:48)
jamesodell对大家说: hibye,(2002/04/26 10:48)
jamesodell对大家说: ontology and metamodel(2002/04/26 10:48)
paul_feng进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:48)
lutf进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:48)
simaetin进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:48)
hibye对jamesodell说: Professor,in the analysis ,use role or the ontology ,or both(2002/04/26 10:48)
ghqin对jamesodell说: Dr.J,what do you think about Grid techology and agent?(2002/04/26 10:48)
hyuan66进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:48)
hellpspring进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:49)
hibye对jamesodell说: yse(2002/04/26 10:49)
xuyunxi进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:49)
jamesodell对大家说: An ontology can have meta-concepts in it. For example, the ontology for UML has 67 metaclasses as its concepts. However, an order processing system would have(2002/04/26 10:50)
jamesodell对大家说: only a few metaclasses.(2002/04/26 10:50)
javaw对jamesodell说: Thanks Professor for your bringing us a new analysis technique.(2002/04/26 10:51)
michael.fly对jamesodell说: Professor,do you think the contact of Rose and RequisitePro is necessary?(2002/04/26 10:51)
banq进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:51)
banq对umlchina说: ??(2002/04/26 10:51)
feixue_0218进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:52)
jamesodell对大家说: javaw; a domain expert might use an activity diagram as a proper way to express a scenario. For example, if the(2002/04/26 10:52)
yhufo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:52)
yhufo对jamesodell说: Thanks Professor give us a new concept(2002/04/26 10:52)
yhufo对jamesodell说: can you give me some artical and web site about ontology(2002/04/26 10:53)
mibaoboo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:53)
jamesodell对大家说: user wants to describe how order processing occurs as a workflow, why not? However, to become meaningful for a progammer, this should be transated to a sequence diagram(2002/04/26 10:53)
jamesodell对大家说: probably, for design. Most companies I work with use activity diagrams to express their scenarios. WHy do you think that is a problem?(2002/04/26 10:54)
jamesodell对大家说: Hibye: Grid techology and agents go well together. In fact, DARPA has an agent grid project. (I have a link to it on my webpage: 10:55)
sunrise518离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:55)
hibye对jamesodell说: thanks a lot(2002/04/26 10:56)
fish123傻乎乎地对umlchina说: umlchina老师,请问一下,有没有Rose直接支持生成Design pattern 代码的插件,我正在用VC++,Rose迭代,递增开发,是否我太依赖工具呐?有空吗,我提示。(2002/04/26 10:56)
javaw对jamesodell说: activity diagram is suitable for expressing customer's all scenarios not one specific scenario?(2002/04/26 10:57)
zenglingyou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:57)
zenglingyou对jamesodell说: I think the ontology is for knowledge share or knowledge exchange, is't it?(2002/04/26 10:57)
ghqin对jamesodell说: Dr.j,which is better to represent the concept of agent,MASIF or FIPA?(2002/04/26 10:57)
jamesodell对大家说: yhufo: and are two sites I think of immediately. If you want to know more, please send me an email.(2002/04/26 10:58)
xcats进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:58)
feixue_0218离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 10:59)
javaw对zenglingyou说: ontology is for knowledge share or knowledge exchange. I agree with you.(2002/04/26 10:59)
jamesodell对大家说: javaw, IMO activity diagrams are not suitable for expressing *all* customer's scenarios.(2002/04/26 10:59)
hellpspring进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:00)
neteagle进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:00)
zenglingyou对jamesodell说: but activity diagrams are suitable for expressing business workflow?(2002/04/26 11:00)
jamesodell对大家说: Sometimes, customers understand their problem better with sequence diagrams; sometimes with state charts; and sometimes with collaboration diagrams(2002/04/26 11:00)
jamesodell对大家说: and sometimes with action semantics(2002/04/26 11:01)
jamesodell对大家说: ghqin, FIPA is a standards group like OMG. I think of it as "the OMG for agents." The have many standards for directory, nameing, transport--and communcation languages.(2002/04/26 11:02)
jamesodell对大家说: Their web address is MASIF--IMO--is dead because it was too limited and very few people use it.(2002/04/26 11:03)
mydudu进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:04)
neteagle对大家说: Dr.j, Can I use UML in the XP project?(2002/04/26 11:04)
jamesodell对大家说: Also, there is a new Java Service Request for agent APIs (Sun JSR 87); see 11:05)
freehorses离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:05)
javaw对jamesodell说: Dr. J, what's your view of XPers' enough design using UML?(2002/04/26 11:05)
jamesodell对大家说: Basically, it is extending Java to include agent-based requirements--as defined by FIPA.(2002/04/26 11:06)
paul_feng进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:06)
jamesodell对大家说: neteagle; I use UML in all XP projects. Kent Beck would not agree with me (and I don't always agree with him ;-)(2002/04/26 11:07)
jamesodell对大家说: Again, without understanding of the concepts and adequate communication of the requiements,(2002/04/26 11:07)
jamesodell对大家说: how can you build a good system. I know: Kent would say that everything is so fast, that if you make a mistake, you can fix it quickly.(2002/04/26 11:08)
ghqin对jamesodell说: what means is better to express the intelligence of an agent,massege exchange or mobility?(2002/04/26 11:09)
jamesodell对大家说: But, if you don't have a good understanding of the problem in the first place, I don't care how fast you program.(2002/04/26 11:09)
jamesodell对大家说: It's not going to be correct--in my 35 years of experience, anyway.(2002/04/26 11:09)
tj_dns进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:09)
mydudu微笑着对大家说: Hi Dr.J,I Managered Projects In China,All Projects' Prosess Use UML,But Custom Can't Understand Out Docs,What Can I Do?(2002/04/26 11:10)
javaw对jamesodell说: But at the beginning of a project, you couldnt have a good enough understanding of it.(2002/04/26 11:10)
yhufo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:11)
yhufo对jamesodell说: but xp is successful too,everyone talk about XP,even in china,it must have some resons.(2002/04/26 11:11)
nyra进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:11)
jamesodell对大家说: zenglingyou; activity diagrams in UML 2.0 are suitable for expressing business workflow. In 1.0, I think they are close.(2002/04/26 11:11)
瘦驼进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:11)
windy.j进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:11)
瘦驼对大家说: Hello everyboay(2002/04/26 11:12)
idel进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:12)
chinalnjpjp进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:12)
nyra对大家说: what a painful late I make!(2002/04/26 11:12)
jamesodell对大家说: ghqin: In order of importance to me:massage exchange, intelligence of an agent, and then mobility(2002/04/26 11:13)
xinly进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:13)
neteagle对jamesodell说: Dr.J, When i in Requirements can i do some Design?(2002/04/26 11:13)
zenglingyou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:13)
zenglingyou对jamesodell说: but activity diagrams are suitable for expressing business workflow?(2002/04/26 11:13)
uml_xyz进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:13)
jamesodell对大家说: Agent communication is *the* most important issue. If agents cannot communcation, it does not matter how intelligent they are.(2002/04/26 11:13)
disney进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:13)
windy.j对大家说: hello everyone,glad to see you here.(2002/04/26 11:14)
ghqin对jamesodell说: thanks(2002/04/26 11:14)
jamesodell对大家说: Furthermore, agents based on the example of simple ants can do great things. Intelligence in not necessary for the ant or the agent.(2002/04/26 11:14)
chinalnjpjp对大家说: I am a layman,hope that every one can help me,thank you.(2002/04/26 11:14)
gxd_mark进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:15)
chinalnjpjp对大家说: who would talk about dig of data?(2002/04/26 11:15)
jamesodell对大家说: neteagle; I prefer to do a little requirements, then a little design, then a little implementation.(2002/04/26 11:16)
mydudu微笑着对jamesodell说: Dr.J,In china ,All Project,All Costomer Can't Understand UML's docs,What can do? thank(2002/04/26 11:16)
zenglingyou离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:16)
jamesodell对大家说: When I do requiments, I prefer not to think about design.(2002/04/26 11:16)
zenglingyou进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:17)
jamesodell对大家说: Requirements will give me *what* the business needs, not *how* to do it.(2002/04/26 11:17)
ligyi进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:17)
jamesodell对大家说: Before I do the *how*, I need to know the *what*.(2002/04/26 11:17)
jamesodell对大家说: Also, the *how* can change over time, but the *what* does not change so much.(2002/04/26 11:18)
hibye对jamesodell说: Professor,what do you think about agent and web service(2002/04/26 11:18)
michael.fly对jamesodell说: Dr.J,what tools do you choose to build requirements?(2002/04/26 11:18)
jamesodell对大家说: So, if I know what the company needs to do for order process, then I can decide how to do it. For example, receiving an(2002/04/26 11:19)
瘦驼对大家说: Dr.J,somebody says: UML is not method,not process,not thinking. What's you opinion?(2002/04/26 11:19)
javaw对jamesodell说: What causes the *how* change over time?(2002/04/26 11:19)
hayfs对jamesodell说: Dr. How can we know we've know actual *what*?(2002/04/26 11:20)
jamesodell对大家说: order is a requirement. 10 years ago, it would have been on paper, today on the web, and tommorrow on a wireles telephone with G3.(2002/04/26 11:20)
neteagle对jamesodell说: then, If i find it can't complete in Design, how can i do?(2002/04/26 11:20)
瘦驼对jamesodell说: Dr.J,somebody says: UML is not method,not process,not thinking. What's you opinion?((2002/04/26 11:20)
jamesodell对大家说: hibye对jamesodell; Agents can be an important technique for web services. Already muchh work is being done there in FIPA.(2002/04/26 11:21)
ghqin对jamesodell说: what do you think about the relation of agent techology and web service?(2002/04/26 11:21)
hayfs对jamesodell说: Dr. How can we know we've known actual *what* ?(2002/04/26 11:21)
agilewang进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:21)
michael.fly对jamesodell说: Dr.J,what tools do you choose to build requirements?(2002/04/26 11:22)
chinalnjpjp对jamesodell说: what is FIPA?(2002/04/26 11:22)
jamesodell对大家说: 瘦驼: yes UML is not a method, not process, not thinking. It is a language. To use that language, you will need a method. But, UML does not have it. So now, several(2002/04/26 11:23)
sailorhero进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:23)
nyra离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:23)
jamesodell对大家说: companies are producing UML-based methods. The most famous is the Rational Unification Process (RUP)(2002/04/26 11:23)
silkweed对大家说: the requirement often changes in our bussiness,how can do(2002/04/26 11:24)
windy.j对大家说: Excuse me,Dr. J, if a project take 6 months,how many weeks in your opinion are suitable for the *what* (requirements)?(2002/04/26 11:24)
javaw对chinalnjpjp说: FIPA is a standards group like OMG - OMG for agents. (James said.)(2002/04/26 11:24)
ghqin对jamesodell说: .net and j2ee,which is better?thanks(2002/04/26 11:24)
michael.fly对jamesodell说: Thanks to explain the concept(2002/04/26 11:24)
eye-eye离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:24)
zenglingyou对大家说: hayfs, Iterative &Increment(2002/04/26 11:25)
chinalnjpjp对javaw说: thanks a lot.(2002/04/26 11:25)
jamesodell对大家说: javaw; technology causes the *how* change over time. New technology enables us to do things differently--and maybe faster ;-)(2002/04/26 11:25)
arthree_new离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:26)
xlp223进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:26)
windy.j对大家说: I also think it's very hard to get the true requirements.(2002/04/26 11:26)
hayfs对大家说: thanks(2002/04/26 11:27)
jamesodell对大家说: Chinalnjpjp; FIPA is the Foundation for Intelligent Physical Agents. Not a very good name, but it has 75 members in it now ( 11:27)
michael.fly对jamesodell说: Dr.J, in your opnion,technology is one of the important fact to acheive object.(2002/04/26 11:28)
zenglingyou对大家说: 100% requiremnts is not necessary, i think.(2002/04/26 11:29)
swnusun进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:29)
jamesodell对大家说: windy.j: projects of any length should be partitioned into small sub projects. For example, I tend to have each of my subprojects divided into 4 (or so) project of 3(2002/04/26 11:29)
agilewang对jamesodell说: Hello Dr.J, As uml is language, how build standards for developer when we use it?(2002/04/26 11:31)
jamesodell对大家说: weeks in length. (XP style) Whatever it is you do, should be done in short intervals that may not exceed three weeks--ever. So, the *what* requirements(2002/04/26 11:31)
tj_dns很高兴地对大家说: I have a lot to learn(2002/04/26 11:31)
superlong进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:32)
windy.j对大家说: Thank you sir,but the requirements of the 4 subprojects are relational, could you tell us how to set them at the right time and right place?(2002/04/26 11:32)
jamesodell对大家说: The *what* requirments tend to take 15 to 30% of the time. This may seem like a lot, but if you have the right concepts, you have a higher(2002/04/26 11:32)
jamesodell对大家说: probability of having the right design.(2002/04/26 11:33)
ghqin对jamesodell说: IBM's agent project seems promising,what do you think about it?(2002/04/26 11:33)
hayfs对大家说: Does activity diagram express all the process needed to realize for one work?(2002/04/26 11:33)
alexxie进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:33)
alexxie对大家说: Professor,Is it necessary to build Component Diagram or Deployment Diagram?I think the Class Diagram is enough.(2002/04/26 11:33)
hibye离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:33)
alexxie对jamesodell说: Professor,Is it necessary to build Component Diagram or Deployment Diagram?I think the Class Diagram is enough.(2002/04/26 11:34)
jamesodell对大家说: ALL: Thank you all very much for you very interesting questions. It is now very late for me and you have exhausted me(2002/04/26 11:34)
umlchina对jamesodell说: professor, thank you very much for your help. good night.(2002/04/26 11:34)
xlp223离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:34)
ghqin对jamesodell说: thank you very much.(2002/04/26 11:35)
jamesodell对大家说: Thank you. (It is now time for your lunch and my sleep.)(2002/04/26 11:35)
yhufo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:35)
yhufo对jamesodell说: thank you very much!welcome to china.(2002/04/26 11:35)
jamesodell离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:35)
tj_dns很高兴地对大家说: thank you , bye(2002/04/26 11:35)
dongbo离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:35)
mj.cai很高兴地对大家说: thank you(2002/04/26 11:35)
瘦驼离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:35)
agilewang离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:35)
tj_dns离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:35)
alexxie离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:35)
yhufo离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:36)
umlchina对大家说: 下周二嘉宾:Alan Shalloway(2002/04/26 11:36)
lzhihua进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:36)
umlchina对大家说: 欢迎大家再来(2002/04/26 11:36)
javaw离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:36)
juneson进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:36)
荷南对umlchina说: 谢谢你组织此次活动!(2002/04/26 11:37)
lzhihua对大家说: faint , 结束了。(2002/04/26 11:37)
simaetin离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:37)
happylo进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:37)
lzhihua对大家说: 有什么精彩之处,请斑竹整理一下吧(2002/04/26 11:37)
juneson进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:37)
hayfs对大家说: 请问建立各种UML视图的最佳顺序是什么?(2002/04/26 11:38)
荷南对umlchina说: 整理后请发到论坛上,谢谢(2002/04/26 11:38)
lzhihua对大家说: 没有最佳顺序。(2002/04/26 11:38)
snowmanjy离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:38)
gigix对大家说: 哎哟,对不起,今天没时间聊天。(2002/04/26 11:38)
gigix对大家说: 下周二欢迎各位来,到时候换我主持。(2002/04/26 11:38)
hayfs对大家说: 那么通常的顺序是什么?有需求开始(2002/04/26 11:39)
yangjc进入聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:39)
mosf离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:39)
umlchina对大家说: 聊天记录会尽快发布(2002/04/26 11:40)
yangjc离开了聊天室.(2002/04/26 11:40)
qfkfw对umlchina说: 谢谢你组织的这次活动(2002/04/26 11:40)
umlchina对大家说: 有什么意见和建议,请反馈 11:41)
umlchina对大家说: odell先生非常感谢大家,他希望过一段时间有空了再来一次(2002/04/26 11:41)
荷南对umlchina说: 好啊,呵呵(2002/04/26 11:42)