嘉宾:Kendall Scott
交流重点:UML, UP, RUP, ICONIX process...

   Ivar Jacobson, Kendall Scott, Doug Rosenberg


kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 09:58)
umlchina对大家说: welcome(2002/07/11 09:58)
umlchina对kendallscott说: welcome,professor(2002/07/11 09:59)
kendallscott对大家说: Hello, everybody!(2002/07/11 09:59)
crane_t进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 09:59)
umlchina对kendallscott说: 提问及参与讨论:草原之蓝,嘉宾发言:正宗喜红,互相说话:绝对黑色(2002/07/11 09:59)
umlchina对大家说: 提问及参与讨论:草原之蓝,嘉宾发言:正宗喜红,互相说话:绝对黑色(2002/07/11 09:59)
sdming对kendallscott说: hello(2002/07/11 09:59)
Charity_Zhou对大家说: Test for the color(2002/07/11 09:59)
xubot对大家说: my project is delayed for requirment changing,what shall i do??(2002/07/11 10:00)
kendallscott对umlchina说: Could anyone who's already asked a question repeat it for me, please?(2002/07/11 10:00)
yansm对大家说: 10:00 Q No.1:Can you talk about the state of art of real-time extension of UML?(2002/07/11 10:00)
seraya对大家说: //look(2002/07/11 10:01)
wangjue进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:01)
overflight进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:01)
水晶晶_yy对kendallscott说: Hi, Ni Hao!(2002/07/11 10:02)
juson2000微笑着对overflight说: u are later(2002/07/11 10:02)
yansm对kendallscott说: Can you talk about the state of art of real-time extension of UML?((2002/07/11 10:02)
kendallscott对umlchina说: I am not seeing anything new appear on my screen...(2002/07/11 10:02)
好奇男孩进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:03)
xubot对大家说: that's why we need real-time system :)(2002/07/11 10:03)
booyu75606进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:03)
虫七对大家说: Is it right to say that an ICONIX process is only an analysis and design process? I feel it's not focus on other aspects in a process of a project, such as roles, plan...(2002/07/11 10:04)
umlchina进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:04)
kidwater进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:04)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: I read some books for pattern, and found it do not tell us how to use them(2002/07/11 10:04)
wangjue对大家说: i think in real-time system the statechart diagram is very important(2002/07/11 10:04)
kendallscott对大家说: The discussion about the real-time extension is still going on, and I don't know where it's going. There's a new piece of text from the OMG that addresses pieces...(2002/07/11 10:05)
wangjue进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:05)
kendallscott对大家说: ...of the "big picture," but there's nothing definitive yet.(2002/07/11 10:05)
jiaoheu进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:06)
kendallscott对大家说: Please be patient--I have to refresh to see any text, and it is taking much time to catch up....(2002/07/11 10:06)
wbcp2000进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:07)
pinely进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:07)
nwdong进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:07)
xubot对kendallscott说: so, real time discussion on internet, it's the way(2002/07/11 10:08)
xubot对大家说: just a joke :)(2002/07/11 10:08)
yansm对kendallscott说: But there is already some realtime modelling tools like ArtiSan's, so can you compare them?(2002/07/11 10:08)
好奇男孩对大家说: Why shall we use UML?What can it bring us?(2002/07/11 10:08)
jiaoheu对大家说: Is it possible to build Web application with UML?(2002/07/11 10:09)
wbcp2000进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:09)
myrontan对大家说: UML is a notation language, a tool to express your thoughts(2002/07/11 10:09)
kendallscott对大家说: I recommend the book "Design Patterns Explained." It gives good information about how to use patterns.(2002/07/11 10:10)
pinely对kendallscott说: hello, can you see the massages?(2002/07/11 10:10)
jiaoheu对大家说: Where is the experts? I cannot find them.(2002/07/11 10:10)
kendallscott对大家说: I agree that most patterns books are hard to understand.(2002/07/11 10:10)
Charity_Zhou进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:10)
Charity_Zhou对kendallscott说: RUP is good in theory, but i feel it's horrible to put it in real life.(2002/07/11 10:10)
shi_ka_ka进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:10)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Professor, could you introduce yourself to us, thank you(2002/07/11 10:10)
yansm对kendallscott说: Umlchina should provide a better bandwidth for you? :)(2002/07/11 10:10)
jiaoheu对大家说: the experts' words are red,right?(2002/07/11 10:11)
kendallscott对大家说: I seem to be making progress!(2002/07/11 10:11)
llstone进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:11)
kendallscott对大家说: A company called ILogix (I believe) makes a real-time modeling tool. Bruce Powel Douglass, author of well-regarded UML real-time books, works there.(2002/07/11 10:11)
pinely对kendallscott说: could you commend some web resoures about web application(using J2EE) modeling with UML to me ? (tutorials or whitepapers or articles or examples)(2002/07/11 10:12)
kendallscott对大家说: I recommend using the UML to make it easier for everyone involved in a project to understand each other.(2002/07/11 10:12)
kendallscott对大家说: It's hard to get people to agree on what things mean, and the UML is very helpful for that too, if you use it right.(2002/07/11 10:12)
虫七对大家说: Is it right to say that an ICONIX process is only an analysis and design process? I feel it's not focus on other aspects in a process of a project, such as roles, plans..(2002/07/11 10:12)
水晶晶_yy对kendallscott说: Yes. Mr. Douglass has just been in this chat room not long time ago.(2002/07/11 10:12)
jery_t进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:13)
好奇男孩对大家说: Could you talk about the Rational Rose? or any other better tools using UML(2002/07/11 10:13)
kendallscott对大家说: You can use the UML to build Web applications to some extent. UML 2.0 will offer more specifics about how to model things like Java Server Pages, but...(2002/07/11 10:13)
jeersoft进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:14)
kendallscott对大家说: ...right now, the strengths of the UML do not match up well with the Web.(2002/07/11 10:14)
pinely对kendallscott说: thanks(2002/07/11 10:14)
Charity_Zhou对好奇男孩说: paper and pen are better. hoho(2002/07/11 10:14)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Is there any special for web development(2002/07/11 10:14)
kendallscott对大家说: Yes, I have auto-scroll checked...(2002/07/11 10:15)
jiaoheu对kendallscott说: when will UML2.0 be released?(2002/07/11 10:15)
seraya微笑着对大家说: if my uml is poor, Can I use uml in my project?(2002/07/11 10:15)
kendallscott对大家说: I hope that everyone can see my text...(2002/07/11 10:15)
unimap进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:16)
umlchina对kendallscott说: yes, wecan(2002/07/11 10:16)
nekner进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:16)
sunlightbj进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:16)
pinely对kendallscott说: i can see your text. :-)(2002/07/11 10:16)
nwdong进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:16)
pinely对kendallscott说: "the strengths of the UML do not match up well with the Web",...(2002/07/11 10:16)
hiker_lx进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:16)
Ankh对kendallscott说: yes,i can(2002/07/11 10:16)
jeffray进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:17)
wenhuisong进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:17)
wenhuisong对大家说: Does UML provide some specifics for such middlewares as CORBA, the design of IDL?(2002/07/11 10:17)
mikegeorge进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:17)
kendallscott对大家说: I've written or co-written five books related to the UML, including "UML Distilled" and "UML Explained"...(2002/07/11 10:17)
z0708进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:18)
kendallscott对大家说: I also do training, mentoring, and consulting related to the UML, the Unified Process, and...(2002/07/11 10:18)
kendallscott对大家说: ...the ICONIX process, which is closely related to the Unified Process.(2002/07/11 10:18)
seraya微笑着对wenhuisong说: yes,visio 2002 can design IDL in uml(2002/07/11 10:18)
kendallscott对大家说: I'm honored to be here tonight, even though I'm way behind in seeing what everyone is writing!(2002/07/11 10:18)
pinely对kendallscott说: then, how to describe the relationship ofjsps, sevlets and business model in one diagram?(2002/07/11 10:18)
pinely对kendallscott说: ...then, how to describe the relationship of jsps, sevlets and business model in one diagram?((2002/07/11 10:19)
虫七对kendallscott说: Is it right to say that a ICONIX process is only an analysis and design process? I feel it's not focus on other aspects of a project.(2002/07/11 10:19)
虫七对kendallscott说: such as roles, plans, scm, etc...(2002/07/11 10:19)
king_mumu进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:19)
kendallscott对大家说: I do not know right now about where to go for J2EE modeling. I can recommend Jim Conallen's book, which is a couple of years old, for information about modeling the Web.(2002/07/11 10:19)
delson进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:19)
kendallscott对大家说: UML does not address CORBA or IDL. The OMG has defined standards for interchange between the UML and CORBA IDL, though.(2002/07/11 10:20)
kendallscott对大家说: UML 2.0 is probably coming out next spring or summer. I have become involved in the effort to define it, as of the last OMG meeting (a couple of weeks ago).(2002/07/11 10:20)
kendallscott对大家说: You can use UML well if you understand any piece of it well.(2002/07/11 10:21)
Charity_Zhou进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:21)
Charity_Zhou对kendallscott说: While using UML, I felt it is not a good idea communication with PD experts using UML. Any idea?(2002/07/11 10:21)
panday进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:21)
ggwemail进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:21)
jery_t对kendallscott说: what do you suggest about j2ee(2002/07/11 10:21)
holyking对kendallscott说: In ICONIX process, robustness analysis is very important,but it seems not a core part of UML,can you give me some idea of robustness analysis in ICONIX(2002/07/11 10:21)
jiaoheu对kendallscott说: Can you tell me the name of Jim Conallen's book you recemmend(2002/07/11 10:21)
kendallscott对大家说: Yes, the ICONIX process deals with analysis and design. There is an assumption that people can get good information about implementation and test and deployment elsewhere(2002/07/11 10:21)
jery_t对kendallscott说: i do think that it brings us low efficient(2002/07/11 10:22)
hiker_lx离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:22)
kendallscott对大家说: The idea is that you use the basics of ICONIX as a foundation, and add to it as you need to.(2002/07/11 10:22)
greeceguo进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:22)
xubot进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:22)
lidux进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:23)
kendallscott对大家说: I would not try to describe Web-specific materials and the business model in one diagram...(2002/07/11 10:23)
kendallscott对大家说: ...what I would do is use a component diagram to describe JSPs and servlets, use class diagrams to describe...(2002/07/11 10:23)

myrontan微笑着对大家说: I think the communication problem can be solved by notes(2002/07/11 10:23)
kendallscott对大家说: ...the business model, and use notes on both diagrams to tie them together.(2002/07/11 10:23)
kendallscott对大家说: It's important to understand that each UML diagram does one thing well--but only one thing.(2002/07/11 10:24)

myrontan微笑着对大家说: Professor, your color is wrong(2002/07/11 10:24)
kendallscott对大家说: Many people make the mistake of trying to do too much with diagrams. It's better to keep things simple...(2002/07/11 10:24)
delez进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:24)
kendallscott对大家说: ...and work to make sure that diagrams communicate well with each other.(2002/07/11 10:24)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: How diagram can communication with each other(2002/07/11 10:24)
水晶晶_yy对kendallscott说: Hi professor, the color for you is RED. :)(2002/07/11 10:25)
好奇男孩进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:25)
好奇男孩对大家说: How can I know all the diagrams communicate well with each other?(2002/07/11 10:25)
litter_ok进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:25)
水晶晶_yy对kendallscott说: Hi professor, the color for you is RED. :)(2002/07/11 10:26)
ggwemail对大家说: who is UML expert?(2002/07/11 10:26)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: The professor(2002/07/11 10:26)
水晶晶_yy对ggwemail说: today of course is Professor Kendall Scott(2002/07/11 10:27)
kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:27)
kendallscott对大家说: PD means problem domain? It depends on the nature of your relationship with them, and how flexible they are...(2002/07/11 10:27)
kendallscott对大家说: ...some people will be comfortable talking about class diagrams and use cases, since they're easy to understand, but...(2002/07/11 10:28)

sdming进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:28)
windy.j进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:28)
aseahorse进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:28)
panday对大家说: Hello. Professor(2002/07/11 10:28)
kendallscott对大家说: ...some people will naturally resist anything that's not "plain English" (or plain Mandarin or Cantonese!).(2002/07/11 10:28)
kendallscott对大家说: What do I suggest about J2EE...?(2002/07/11 10:28)

simonlang进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:29)
oguh进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:29)
mikegeorge离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:29)
好奇男孩离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:30)
mapleseed进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:30)
llstone对大家说: Any one can tell me Active diagram is been used in what occsion.(2002/07/11 10:30)
ggwemail对大家说: who is Professor ?(2002/07/11 10:30)
oguh进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:31)
simonlang对大家说: so long not to see the answer?(2002/07/11 10:31)
aseahorse对kendallscott说: professor, what is your aspects about the development of real-time UML?(2002/07/11 10:32)
seraya离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:32)
水晶晶_yy对kendallscott说: professor, what is your aspects about the development of real-time UML?((2002/07/11 10:32)
kendallscott对大家说: You can use notes to show connections; as I said before, you can also use your experience to draw diagrams that complement each other, but...(2002/07/11 10:33)
ggwemail对kendallscott说: what do we test for UML?(2002/07/11 10:33)
kendallscott对大家说: ... I can't offer details about that now, I'm afraid!(2002/07/11 10:33)
kendallscott对大家说: Please excuse me--I am back to not seeing anything again...(2002/07/11 10:33)
panday对kendallscott说: hello, professor, what do you think of that some people say it's not easy to transform UML diagram into code?(2002/07/11 10:33)
Charity_Zhou进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:34)
kendallscott对大家说: I do see that people keep coming in. Welcome! I'm the Professor!(2002/07/11 10:34)
sdming进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:35)
andiyang进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:35)
aseahorse对kendallscott说: embeded system will make more effects on the the develop of real-time UML,do you think so?(2002/07/11 10:35)
simonlang进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:35)
llstone对kendallscott说: hello profesor, Active Diagram is used in what occasion?(2002/07/11 10:36)
kendallscott对大家说: I'm not seeing any new questions...I hope I see something soon!(2002/07/11 10:36)
wenhuisong进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:37)
wenhuisong对大家说: Is there any special for us to consider C/S or B/S networking programming with UML?(2002/07/11 10:37)
windy.j对大家说: Hello, Professor,could you tell us something of the newest about developing process?(2002/07/11 10:37)
ctianh进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:37)
kendallscott对大家说: Activity diagrams are great for two things: (1) showing workflow and processes, and (2) showing the details of...(2002/07/11 10:38)
czyl进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:38)
crystalknt进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:38)
yuanlai进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:38)
kendallscott对大家说: ...algorithms. You can also use them effectively when you have a complicated use case...(2002/07/11 10:38)
kendallscott对大家说: ...with lots if IF-THEN-ELSE logic, because it's hard to follow in text.(2002/07/11 10:38)
simonlang进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:38)
why_woo对大家说: dose UML work in old developing process(2002/07/11 10:38)
befresh对kendallscott说: hi,professor , how to integrate UML and RUP ?(2002/07/11 10:38)
kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:39)
cnhongwei进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:39)
aseahorse离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:39)
fan_ya进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:39)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: to integrate UML and RUP, you can get it from OOAD training course from Rational(2002/07/11 10:39)
kendallscott对大家说: It's not easy to transform MOST UML diagrams into code. A properly done sequence diagram, though...(2002/07/11 10:39)
kendallscott对大家说: ...should be relatively easy to turn into code. Not EASY, but RELATIVELY easy. The UML is addressing...(2002/07/11 10:40)
9foryou进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:40)
windy.j对why_woo说: I am not meaning that way...(2002/07/11 10:40)
kendallscott对大家说: ...what's called "executable models," but it's too early to see where that's going.(2002/07/11 10:40)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: why we need to transform each UML diagram into code? some of them just for understanding(2002/07/11 10:40)
kendallscott对大家说: I'm trying to work with two different browser windows, but I keep forgetting about red....(2002/07/11 10:41)
rickycheng进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:42)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: no each diagram need to be transformed into code(2002/07/11 10:42)
wenhuisong对大家说: What is new in the coming UML versions?(2002/07/11 10:42)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: some of them just for understanding(2002/07/11 10:42)
llstone进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:42)
kendallscott对大家说: Newest about developing process...?(2002/07/11 10:42)
czyl对大家说: yes?(2002/07/11 10:43)
little_e进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:43)
yansm对大家说: test(2002/07/11 10:43)
rickycheng进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:43)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Professor, how to express if-then-else in Sequence Diagram, by notes?(2002/07/11 10:44)
yansm对kendallscott说: Do you think it suitable for UML to model embedded system? If not now, any improvement advice?(2002/07/11 10:44)
yuanlai对kendallscott说: What effect is Packages in Business Use case?(2002/07/11 10:44)
kendallscott对大家说: This is interesting, isn't it? I see questions eventually, and I wonder whether the askers are still around!(2002/07/11 10:45)
windy.j对大家说: yes,professor,if there is some improvements?We know we are trying to control it well.(2002/07/11 10:45)
czyl对大家说: professor ,can you tell me about state Machine view?(2002/07/11 10:45)
虫七进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:45)
虫七对kendallscott说: The color is never mind, professor, we can catch it. :) And what's the important value of MDA, in your opinion?(2002/07/11 10:45)
kendallscott对大家说: Now I seem to be behind again...(2002/07/11 10:45)
好奇男孩进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:46)
好奇男孩进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:46)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: what is MDA(2002/07/11 10:46)
虫七对kendallscott说: Model Driven Architecture. A new spec of OMG.(2002/07/11 10:46)
leoxy进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:46)
kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:47)
why_woo对大家说: why we need model driven?(2002/07/11 10:47)
orang进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:47)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Is there any difference between MDA and 4+1 views(2002/07/11 10:48)
lennoncao进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:48)
xubot离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:48)
greeceguo离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:48)
llstone对大家说: professor,can tell me how to transfer use case diagram to seqence diagram.(2002/07/11 10:49)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: llstone, I think it can not(2002/07/11 10:49)
czyl对大家说: why?(2002/07/11 10:49)
虫七对myrontan说: MDA used to using the uml model to generate your codes.(2002/07/11 10:49)
llstone对大家说: why?(2002/07/11 10:49)
why_woo对大家说: use case diagram seem not to transfer to seqence diagram,does it?(2002/07/11 10:50)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: because these two in different domain, one in problem domain, and one in design domain(2002/07/11 10:50)
kendallscott对大家说: Yes, the UML is mainly meant to increase understanding, but many people want to go from UML to code, and it's something that the OMG is addressing...(2002/07/11 10:50)
kendallscott对大家说: ...but I agree with Myron's point. The focus should be on communication first and code second.(2002/07/11 10:50)
llstone对大家说: you mean i must make class diagram.(2002/07/11 10:51)
ying_mo进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:51)
wenhuisong进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:53)
wenhuisong对大家说: Who can say some basic diagrams' function in uml?(2002/07/11 10:53)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: llstone, or in other way, use case describe the phenomenon, ...(2002/07/11 10:53)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: and sequence diagram describe the action and reaction between actor and system(2002/07/11 10:53)
虫七对大家说: And MDA will make the code first and communication second. Do you think so?(2002/07/11 10:53)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: I am sorry, between components also(2002/07/11 10:54)
supernatural2002进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:54)
why_woo对好奇男孩说: hahaha(2002/07/11 10:54)
虫七对大家说: I am afraid I will have to focus too much to give a accurate model in MDA tools.(2002/07/11 10:55)
delson对大家说: Where is the professor,how about his point(2002/07/11 10:55)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: llstone, that does not mean we must make class diagram...(2002/07/11 10:55)
好奇男孩对why_woo说: you're crazy! can you see me in the board?(2002/07/11 10:55)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: ..., in fact, each use case will contain many sequence diagram and collaborate diagram...(2002/07/11 10:56)
jiaoheu微笑着对虫七说: Can you tell me what is MDA,please?(2002/07/11 10:56)
why_woo对好奇男孩说: y(2002/07/11 10:56)
wenhuisong对大家说: What is RUP ?(2002/07/11 10:56)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: ...Professor, am I right on this point? Thank you.(2002/07/11 10:56)
虫七微笑着对jiaoheu说: Sorry, It's complex to explain it. Pls refer to 10:57)
llstone对大家说: i want to know,which on is first been maked in class diagram and sequence diagram(2002/07/11 10:57)
wenhuisong对大家说: What is RUP?(2002/07/11 10:57)
fan_ya对大家说: A question: how to describe a complicated pure algorithm (i.e. searching and ...) in uml? only activity diagram?(2002/07/11 10:58)
jiaoheu微笑着对虫七说: Thank you!(2002/07/11 10:58)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: first, use case, second, sequence diag for each use case...(2002/07/11 10:58)
kendallscott对大家说: You shouldn't focus on code if you're thinking about MDA. Yes, that's the goal, but models are the key, and models...(2002/07/11 10:58)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: ..., third, extract class, forth, sequence diag for some classes(2002/07/11 10:59)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: ..., there are two kinds of sequence diagram.(2002/07/11 10:59)
kendallscott对大家说: ...are about communication! It's going to take some time to get good code from models--focus on getting good models in place first.(2002/07/11 10:59)
hkdxm进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 10:59)
llstone对大家说: your meaning is class is extracted from object in sequence.(2002/07/11 10:59)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: No, first sequence diagram is for analysis, second sequence is for design, I think.(2002/07/11 11:00)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: So there is no class first.(2002/07/11 11:01)
befresh微笑着对kendallscott说: professor,how to extract CLASS from use case?(2002/07/11 11:01)
kendallscott对大家说: I'm sorry--I'm back to not seeing anything new...(2002/07/11 11:02)
dcomli进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:02)
llstone对大家说: but the sequece is the action bewteen class.(2002/07/11 11:02)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Professor, could you explain the meaning of MDA for me? Thank you.(2002/07/11 11:02)
delson对大家说: The professor is right,Communication is FIRST!,Would you to to UML and J2EE(2002/07/11 11:02)
befresh微笑着对kendallscott说: what difference about first sequence diagram and second sequence ?(2002/07/11 11:02)
虫七微笑着对befresh说: focus on the noun in your use case. and then think of is it a proper class in ur system.(2002/07/11 11:02)
xiaohu100进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:03)
llstone对大家说: and at that time,you didn't have any class.(2002/07/11 11:03)
好奇男孩离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:03)
umlchina进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:04)
9foryou对myrontan说: object or class in sequence diag?(2002/07/11 11:04)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Is there any other way to extract class?(2002/07/11 11:04)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Sorry, object in sequence diag.(2002/07/11 11:05)
delson对大家说: myrontan微笑着对大家说: Is there any other way to extract class?(11:04)good question(2002/07/11 11:05)
czyl对大家说: where ?professor(2002/07/11 11:06)
kendallscott对大家说: MDA stands for Model-Driven Architecture. See 11:06)
kendallscott对大家说: An algorithm is a series of steps that results in some value. Like using a numerical method to compute a square root.(2002/07/11 11:07)
kendallscott对大家说: RUP is the Rational Unified Process. It's an instance of the Unified Process that has Rational-specific enhancements.(2002/07/11 11:07)
kendallscott对大家说: Sequence diagrams have objects, not classes.(2002/07/11 11:08)
kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:08)
dcomli对大家说: I seem not able to post a message.(2002/07/11 11:08)
befresh微笑着对myrontan说: but sequence diag pay attention to actor actions,how to express workflow(2002/07/11 11:08)
kendallscott对大家说: Activity diagrams are the best choice for workflows. You can show objects and states on this diagram as well--it's not just flowchart stuff.(2002/07/11 11:09)
shshsh_0510进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:10)
llstone进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:10)
llstone对大家说: kendallscott,the object in sequence is the instance of class,isn't it?(2002/07/11 11:10)
dcomli对大家说: professor, how to become a designer? Does it need a lot of programming experience or just need a good tutor?(2002/07/11 11:10)
kendallscott对大家说: Two kinds of sequence diagrams?(2002/07/11 11:11)
kendallscott对大家说: I recommend using them only for design. The robustness diagram is an intermediate diagram between use cases and sequence diagrams...(2002/07/11 11:11)
kendallscott对大家说: ...the robustness diagram starts addressing design issues without forcing the modeler to commit to implementation too early.(2002/07/11 11:11)
llstone对大家说: the first one.(2002/07/11 11:12)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: But how about analysis phase(2002/07/11 11:12)
扫吧进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:13)
kendallscott对大家说: Yes, objects on sequence diagrams are instances of classes on class diagrams...(2002/07/11 11:13)
kendallscott对大家说: ...the idea is that you decide which classes are going to perform which operations, using the sequence diagram...(2002/07/11 11:13)
kendallscott对大家说: ...then you go back and enhance your class diagrams.(2002/07/11 11:13)
kendallscott对大家说: What about the analysis phase?(2002/07/11 11:13)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Maybe we need something to express in analysis phase(2002/07/11 11:13)
fan_ya对大家说: Should I use old program diagram as a comment of use case/method/statemachine to describe algorithm detial?(2002/07/11 11:14)
alextao进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:14)
guxf@bigfoot.com对大家说: Class diagram and sequence diagram can also be used in analysis phase. right ?(2002/07/11 11:15)
pangxu进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:15)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: guxf, I think yes. But different granularity. What is your opinion, professor.(2002/07/11 11:16)
freespark进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:16)
虫七进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:16)
虫七对大家说: Yes. Of course. I call it Analysis Class Diagram(A.O.D) and Analysis Sequence Diagram(A.S.D). :)(2002/07/11 11:16)
llstone离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:17)
llstone进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:17)
kendallscott对大家说: I will be back in one minute. Maybe then I'll be seeing questions again...(2002/07/11 11:18)
dcomli对大家说: professor, how to become a designer? Does it need a lot of programming experience or just need a good tutor?(2002/07/11 11:18)
9foryou对大家说: Class Diagram in analysis phase focus on business domain,get Entity of Business?(2002/07/11 11:19)
holyking进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:19)
why_woo离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:19)
befresh微笑着对大家说: when i use Design Pattern on design phase? and how to use Design Pattern on class diagram?(2002/07/11 11:19)
kendallscott对大家说: Anything that you already have that describes how existing programs work can be helpful in describing use cases and other UML things...(2002/07/11 11:20)
dcomli对9foryou说: I agree with you.(2002/07/11 11:20)
kendallscott对大家说: ...visual modeling tools usually let you put links in to external documents, and that's something I strongly recommend.(2002/07/11 11:20)
kendallscott对大家说: Programming knowledge is helpful for designers, but sometimes it gets in the way. The most important thing, in my opinion, is...(2002/07/11 11:21)
founder_chen进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:21)
founder_chen微笑着对大家说: Mr. kendallscott, Could give us some advice about the difference of RUP and XP?(2002/07/11 11:21)
kendallscott对大家说: ...imagination!(2002/07/11 11:21)
kendallscott对大家说: Plus knowlege of things like design patterns, of course.(2002/07/11 11:21)
guxf@bigfoot.com对大家说: If only for communication, I can ignore something everyone know and understand in model...(2002/07/11 11:21)
虫七对大家说: Hi, professor, perhaps the chatroom system is not stable enough? I suggest UMLChina give a more powerful tools to chat.(2002/07/11 11:21)
kendallscott对大家说: Class diagrams in the analysis phase are supposed to capture business entities, yes.(2002/07/11 11:22)
guxf@bigfoot.com对大家说: But for generating code, the model must be 100% accurate and complete ...(2002/07/11 11:22)
kendallscott对大家说: The UML has a special notation for design patterns. It's like a template class, but it's for a collaboration instead...(2002/07/11 11:22)
guxf@bigfoot.com对大家说: So Will MDA force to spend more time on modeling?(2002/07/11 11:22)
kendallscott对大家说: put the "placeholder" names in a box at the top of the collaboration symbol.(2002/07/11 11:22)
kendallscott对大家说: When you use design patterns is a complicated question that we can't address here, I'm afraid!(2002/07/11 11:23)
kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:23)
kendallscott对大家说: Within MDA, you'll actually spend more time on transforming models into other models...(2002/07/11 11:24)
kendallscott对大家说: ...than on building models in the first place, once you have a set of models to work with. We'll be talking about that...(2002/07/11 11:24)
neteagle进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:24)
kendallscott对大家说: the MDA book. You'll all go out and buy it, right?!?(2002/07/11 11:25)
kendallscott对大家说: I talk about the RUP and XP in "The Unified Process Explained." The basic difference is that the RUP is a "big" process...(2002/07/11 11:25)
guxf@bigfoot.com对大家说: The name?(2002/07/11 11:25)
kendallscott对大家说: ...with lots of different activities and roles and details, while XP is an extremely "small" process...(2002/07/11 11:25)
chinalbh进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:25)
hlmcgyqz进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:26)
kendallscott对大家说: ...and I wouldn't even call it a process--it's a way of doing things outside of process.(2002/07/11 11:26)
kendallscott对大家说: Whoever asked about that can talk to me about it offline--it's a very interesting contrast.(2002/07/11 11:26)
kendallscott对大家说: The MDA book, right now, will be called "MDA Distilled." Yes, it's meant to hook into "UML Distilled"!(2002/07/11 11:27)
llstone对大家说: professor,can tell me some about object in Sequence diagram?(2002/07/11 11:27)
kendallscott对大家说: It should be coming out early next year--we're hoping February, for the first OMG meeting of the year.(2002/07/11 11:27)
llstone对大家说: where are they from?(2002/07/11 11:27)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Professor, question about pattern. When to use pattern is a big problem? If early, too detail. Could you give me some advice?(2002/07/11 11:28)
kendallscott对大家说: I recommend against using sequence diagrams during analysis. Class diagrams are very important during analysis, though.(2002/07/11 11:28)
kendallscott对大家说: Objects on sequence diagrams come from classes on class diagrams. The idea is that you identify all of the domain classes that appear...(2002/07/11 11:29)
kendallscott对大家说: your use case text before you start a sequence diagram. Then you just show an object for each class of your use case.(2002/07/11 11:29)
llstone对大家说: but in analysis we have none classes.(2002/07/11 11:30)
argpc进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:30)
kendallscott对大家说: I can't really offer much about design patterns, I'm afraid, but I can say a couple of things. First, you should start thinking about design patterns when you're...(2002/07/11 11:30)
kendallscott对大家说: ...drawing sequence diagrams and you start seeing possible common factors appearing on different diagrams.(2002/07/11 11:31)
frankful88进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:31)
argpc对大家说: hello,all(2002/07/11 11:31)
虫七进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:31)
guxf@bigfoot.com对大家说: Professor, why do you recommend against using sequence diagrams during analysis? I think RUP recommend that.(2002/07/11 11:32)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: llstone, in analysis phase, we have analysis classes according to RUP(2002/07/11 11:33)
outmyth进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:35)
yaocq进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:35)
虫七离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:35)
虫七进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:35)
虫七对大家说: Then what is the proper means during analysis? And why?(2002/07/11 11:36)
品雪进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:36)
9foryou对大家说: If I master requirement in my heart,Can you jump to design phase directly(2002/07/11 11:36)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: 9foryou, it is not good, I think.(2002/07/11 11:37)
kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:37)
品雪对虫七说: hehe(2002/07/11 11:37)
frankful88进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:38)
leoxy进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:39)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: 9foryou, because analysis can make you understand the problem more clearly, and the most point is that it will record the realization process.(2002/07/11 11:39)
llstone对大家说: myrontan,you mean if i don't know RUP,i can't complete the anlysis.(2002/07/11 11:39)
cooldebug进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:40)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: llstone, no, but I think RUP is good on this point.(2002/07/11 11:40)
befresh微笑着对大家说: how to manage RUP,and how to know implement RUP is right?(2002/07/11 11:41)
9foryou对大家说: Professor,How to judge Use Case Diagram perfect?(2002/07/11 11:41)
9foryou对大家说: sorry, should use case perfect(2002/07/11 11:41)
kendallscott对大家说: Use case diagrams, by themselves, don't offer much. Use case text, though, can be perfected by negotiating with the users...(2002/07/11 11:42)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Process is something that tell people how to do an activity, not the bible.(2002/07/11 11:42)
llstone对大家说: ok,now i don't know RUP,how can i draw the object in sequence diagram during analysis.(2002/07/11 11:43)
kendallscott对大家说: Someone asked about managing the RUP? That's impossible to answer here or anywhere else!(2002/07/11 11:43)
zhanglcy进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:43)
kendallscott对大家说: keep iterating until there's agreement on both sides.(2002/07/11 11:43)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: llstone, you can if you can capture those things interact from an architect viewpoint(2002/07/11 11:45)
kendallscott进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:46)
shshsh_0510对大家说: RUP & UML is excellent!but To transfer to use them, where can i start about(2002/07/11 11:46)
myrontan微笑着对大家说: Professor, question on RUP. Why RUP distribute realization of usecase task to designer, not analyst?(2002/07/11 11:46)
阿铁进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:47)
虫七对shshsh_0510说: To begin ur steps into RUP n UML, read the professor's book, pls.(2002/07/11 11:48)
wxfwsy进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:49)
9foryou对大家说: Professor,thanks,see you,bye(2002/07/11 11:50)
9foryou离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:50)
shaojl进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:50)
品雪离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:51)
delson对大家说: i have two cases, a and b, a use b, how i describe this relation in sequence diagram ? thandks(2002/07/11 11:51)
虫七离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:51)
gyh.xtu进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:52)
阿铁离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:52)
shshsh_0510离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:52)
gyh.xtu离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:53)
虫七进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:53)
delson对大家说: delson对大家说: i have two cases, a and b, a use b, how i describe this relation in sequence diagram ?(2002/07/11 11:53)
windy.j对大家说: Excuse me,Professor,which is more important in a process,the people or the process defined as those in RUP?(2002/07/11 11:55)
虫七对delson说: It's a strange question. Perhaps no one can answer it for u.(2002/07/11 11:55)
78197826进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:55)
虫七离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:55)
befresh微笑着对大家说: bye(2002/07/11 11:55)
befresh离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:55)
yj_2k进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:56)
umlchina对大家说: 今天网络不好,嘉宾总是断线,我向大家致歉(2002/07/11 11:56)
noyie进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:57)
umlchina对大家说: 还没有结束(2002/07/11 11:57)
yj_2k对大家说: why?(2002/07/11 11:57)
ehuayu进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:58)
虫七进入聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:58)
虫七离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:58)
booyu75606离开了聊天室.(2002/07/11 11:59)